Trump: Impeach is the new Orange

[Animalmother]

He was a waste of carbon.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62zxp1y5lwo
Not the article but the picture the BBC used is fucking priceless
That is a stroke isn't it?

[eny]

Yep, TIA.


https://zeteo.com/p/charlie-kirk-in-his ... hare=false

[Stormbringer]

His views are clearly offensive to many, but when we start saying things like this about other human beings:

He was a waste of carbon.

...I fear we may have reduced ourselves to the same level, displaying the same level of contempt for others, only framed differently.

He was still a father and husband, with people who loved him and whom he loved, and from whom he has been cruelly taken.

If he had been allowed to live, he may have matured and come to turn away from the ideas he once espoused. I know I have in my own life, from terrible things I once used to think. Nobody should be murdered because they say dumb things.

The whole situation is utterly lamentable.

[Lenny Solidus]

Nobody should be murdered because they say dumb things.

To say the things that he peddled and were absorbed en masse as they were as "dumb things" is, I feel, very short-sighted. That's the best way I can put it nicely. From the age of only 19 he paraded himself as an activist when those that he targeted under DEI culture and far worse by far were all intentionally to cause distrust and outright anger - Charlie Kirk altered people's perceptions of others and the world in general in the most egregious disgusting ways imaginable. Do I feel for his Kids? of course I do, I'm not party to some of the utterly depraved things some on the left are shitting out on the regular right now which I find shameful, the extents being taken. I respect he was a family man, I feel for his kids unreservedly.

But, everything he did was a personal choice, one he was more than aware of the harder he pushed could and possibly would one day bite him in the ass. And that it would impact not just him but his family his friends - his everything. That day arrived. Now he's being touted as some kind of civil rights movement icon, when the truth is nothing he peddled on a daily basis did anything other than directly impacted other people lives in a terrible heinous consistently widely accepted by many dangerous way.

Nothing about what that man did or said should ever be listed under the term dumb. End of.

[Mantis]

The idea that he might be regarded as some as a civil rights icon is laughable. He was against the civil rights movement of the 60s and said it was a mistake to pass the Civil Rights Act and he hated Martin Luther King.

I guess when you spend your time peddling hate and saying that it's worth people dying in school shootings to preserve your gun rights, to be shot is just karma.

Trump's mob is literally going around disappearing people to camps. We are teetering on the brink of something really nasty where I really do worry that it might require good people to step up and actually fight for the freedoms like those that were won in WW2. I'm not sure what other recourse they really have when Trump is going to be in power for a few more years and everything they do just fans the flames. Britain will probably be quite isolated from it outside of the economic implications, but it's still a scary time to live through when America might explode into a civil war; or worse, become a full fascist state with nobody to stop it.

[Raid]

If he had been allowed to live, he may have matured and come to turn away from the erroneous ideas he once espoused. I know I have in my own life, from terrible things I once used to think. Nobody should be murdered because they say dumb things.

I'm not sure what you were doing at another time in your life, but I'd hazard a guess that you weren't saying black people shouldn't pilot aircraft, claiming husbands should own their wives, and decrying the concept of empathy from a high-profile platform reaching millions of impressionable people. The guy shouldn't have been murdered, of course not, but let's not equate the dumb things we did when we were young to attempting to convert a new generation of nazis.

Yes, the whole situation is utterly lamentable, I agree, but that situation started long before he was shot.

Edit: Incidentally, the irony of me decrying this guy's hatred of empathy while seemingly not demonstrating any myself isn't lost on me, it's just that my empathy extends to the millions of Americans that are going to be affected by this regime, and particularly the minority groups being villainised by Kirk and others of his ilk, and frankly the latter is the larger of the two. I don't take any pleasure in a family losing their father and husband, regardless of what I thought of said man, but we're watching the largest liberal democracy turn into a fascist hellhole in real time, and this guy was in support of that.

[Stormbringer]

You're right in saying my use of the phrase "dumb things" is misrepresenting the ideology he was espousing. I didn't intend for that to be the focus of my point; I acknowledge that his language was (potentially) dangerous to some.

My point of that post was more, to paraphrase Nietzsche, that we should be careful when we fight with 'monsters' that we do not become monsters ourselves. If we show contempt for a man by declaring (from an assumed moral high ground) he is nothing but a waste of matter, then we enter into the same base state in which Kirk's apparent contempt for other humans operates.

I am sad this man is dead. I am sad for his wife, I am sad for his kids, I am sad for the state of democracy and political discourse in America, that this is what things have degenerated to, and I am sure this is only the tip of the iceberg.

[Mantis]

My point of that post was more, to paraphrase Nietzsche, that we should be careful when we fight with monsters that we do not become monsters ourselves. If we show contempt for a man by declaring (from an assumed moral high ground) he is nothing but a waste of matter, then we enter into the same base state in which Kirk's contempt for other humans operates.

It's a difficult one wrestling with the harsh reality that whilst it is very sad that a man with a family has died, the world is undoubtedly a better place without him in it. He preached hatred and evil and now he can't do that anymore.

That doesn't mean I wanted him dead or celebrated his death. Frankly his death was less consequential for me than what I had for dinner that day. But even Joseph Goebbels had children. Innocent people are always going to suffer while there is so much hatred in the world.

I am sad that American culture and political ideology has reached this tragic point. Because ultimately it's going to cause nothing but suffering for everyone involved. But the responsibility for this lies at the feet of the select few with the power and influence at the top who are driving this wedge into society for their own material gain, and I really do worry that cooler heads aren't going to prevail over it all.

[Stormbringer]

Well said, and I think this article does a great job of addressing the situation:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rk-killing

[eny]

The biggest part of the problem is the derelict, bought out, king-appeasing media has never shone the light required on Kirk's cancerous rhetoric. He should have been "buried" by truth when it was apparent he and a Supreme Court Justice's wife organised 80 buses of insurrectionists to the Capitol for J6, and then pled the fifth when asked to account for it by the J6 committee.

The absent, cowardly media have greased the way to where the US now finds itself.

[Wrathbone]

This is perhaps a weird comparison, but the way I feel about Charlie Kirk's death reminds me of how I felt about Saddam Hussein's execution. To be clear, I'm not comparing him to Saddam as they were both awful in very different ways. What it reminds me of is when Saddam - a figure who was rightfully reviled - was being dragged into the execution room, having the hood put over his head and the noose round his neck, and he just looked like an old, terrified man. I'm fundamentally against the death penalty because even when done with as much dignity as is possible (which Saddam's execution was not), it comes across to me as a bunch of baying dogs who want blood.

I've thankfully not seen the footage of Kirk actually being shot, but I've read a disturbingly detailed description, and in that moment to me he was just a person being murdered in front of his family. All the commentators from both the left and the right arguing about his politics - some trying to make him a martyr, others outright revelling in his demise - struck me as not that different from Saddam's frenzied execution mob. I think it's entirely possible, maybe even basically human, to be able to detest someone for their views and their negative impact on the world while also finding their death tragic and regrettable.

You would think that should allow the left and the right to find common ground in that basic humanity, but instead it's divided each side further apart. The terminator had it right: it's in our nature to destroy ourselves.

[Alan]

Right wing star killed by possible left leaning idiot would bring them together? When trump was shot at by a right winger it didnt do shit!

[Wrathbone]

I'm not suggesting I actually expected it to bring anyone together, I'm saying humanity is absent from the debate which is why something like this causes further divide. It weaponised the politics when it should have defused it. We really are a despicable species at times.

If Trump had been killed, or if he is now, I suspect I'd feel relieved more than anything. Then I'd probably feel gross. I have no doubt that a world without Trump would be a better world, but I don't actively want him to be assassinated (though I obviously get why many people do). I expect that stance might change depending on what he does in the next 3 and a half years.

[Stormbringer]

This is perhaps a weird comparison, but the way I feel about Charlie Kirk's death reminds me of how I felt about Saddam Hussein's execution. To be clear, I'm not comparing him to Saddam as they were both awful in very different ways. What it reminds me of is when Saddam - a figure who was rightfully reviled - was being dragged into the execution room, having the hood put over his head and the noose round his neck, and he just looked like an old, terrified man. I'm fundamentally against the death penalty because even when done with as much dignity as is possible (which Saddam's execution was not), it comes across to me as a bunch of baying dogs who want blood.

I've thankfully not seen the footage of Kirk actually being shot, but I've read a disturbingly detailed description, and in that moment to me he was just a person being murdered in front of his family. All the commentators from both the left and the right arguing about his politics - some trying to make him a martyr, others outright revelling in his demise - struck me as not that different from Saddam's frenzied execution mob. I think it's entirely possible, maybe even basically human, to be able to detest someone for their views and their negative impact on the world while also finding their death tragic and regrettable.

You would think that should allow the left and the right to find common ground in that basic humanity, but instead it's divided each side further apart. The terminator had it right: it's in our nature to destroy ourselves.

I completely agree; well put, sir!

[Lenny Solidus]

And MAGA ghouls now have their sights set firmly on the UK wanting to influence the kind of current right lead push we see happening in London in
in lieu of the Charlie Kirk shooting and ever mounting extreme Islamophobia, Steve Bannon was also in attendance.

Walking to the Metrolink yesterday I noticed a disturbing amount of Union flags have popped up everywhere around the parts I live, my wife immediately drew attention to them and said "I think I'll put up our flag too when we get back home" to which I instantly said please don't, and she asked "why not?" - now try explaining to someone who has never even contemplated delving into anything to do with politics and hardly keeps up with current events as to why representing a union flag in the current climate is a bad idea and sends out completely the wrong message. Our Country is filled to the brim with such people who will see it happening and take part without any purposeful kind of insight. That to me is a grave concern. How about just grab a brush and a piece of paper and daub NOT WELCOME on it, there you go.

It's not a call for unity, it's anything but.

On a personal note my four closest neighbours were I reside are all Lithuanian, Polish, Swedish and Indian respectively - and not one has ever caused me any problems in the years they have lived here, we all say Hi how are you doing or wave on the regular, I'm not about to stick up a fucking Union Jack from my window knowing full well what it's being used to represent right now but once again try explaining the cause and effect of doing such a thing to anyone not privy to what is actually going on in the country right now.

My own son is now living his own life now as a married converted Muslim and nothing about his new religious lifestyle is ever uttered or pushed onto us in any shape or form when he comes to visit. It's just my present son, the same one I've always known chatting shit about Call of Duty and playing games on his phone while I try to have a meaningful conversation. Such a thought wouldn't even cross the mind of my wife in these current times, and that within itself is a concern.