Small Screen. Bigger Screen.
-
Sly Boots
- Bar Staff
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:34 am
- Location: Hampshire
-
Contact:
Post
by Sly Boots » Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:45 am
Raid wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:42 am
I wonder if it's partially an ego thing. I get the feeling creative types don't want to just reproduce someone else's work, they have to either put their own spin on things or at least create something of their own within the parameters set in another's work.
This is 100% the problem with The Witcher post-S1.
Rumours abound that the writing team actively made fun of and belittled the source material in the writing room. Obviously thought they could do better (spoiler: they really couldn't).
Makes sense that someone as passionate about the lore as Cavill, who campaigned to win the role of Geralt, decided to GTFO even before S3 screens.
-
Wrathbone
- Local
- Posts: 3675
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:08 am
Post
by Wrathbone » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:01 am
Maturin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:12 am
I stopped watching Rings of Power after about 4 episodes. None of it made any sense in relation to Tolkien's work.
Sorry, but I can't agree with that. Outside of a couple of weird choices and permitting that some things that appear to contradict established things in Middle Earth are unresolved in the show*, I didn't see anything that was incompatible with Tolkien's work. In fact I saw things which convinced me that the writers have a far deeper appreciation for the subtleties of the work than most people give them credit for, such as the demonstrable recognition of the two kinds of elvish hope in Elrond's story (Amdir, which is roughly hoping that an endeavour pans out okay, and Estel, which is a grander faith in the destiny of Arda and the powers that shape it) and the dangers of focusing on one more than the other.
To expand on that example a bit more, because the subtle detail on show is easy to miss, and I find it quite moving:
*I'm referring to these two specific things:
-
Snowy
- Local
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:57 am
- Location: Ballhang
Post
by Snowy » Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:25 pm
Oops sorry, I seem to have derailed this one
RCHD wrote:Snowy is my favourite. He's a metal God.
08/10/2003 - 17/08/2018
10501
-
Wrathbone
- Local
- Posts: 3675
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:08 am
Post
by Wrathbone » Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:50 pm
Yep, sorry, I've not helped there.
But I think there's an interesting wider discussion to be had on adaptations. I broadly agree that sticking to the source material where appropriate is best, but I've seen plenty of criticism (some here but mainly elsewhere) along those lines targeted at the Rings of Power and most of it doesn't necessarily stand up to scrutiny. RoP does make some adaptive choices - some out of necessity (e.g. 2000 years of history being compressed into a smaller timeframe, because a TV show with mortal characters doesn't work if every episode half the cast vanishes because it's moved on 50 years) and some out of legality. As I said before though, I don't think the vast majority of the adaptive choices are unfaithful to the source material in terms of spirit, if not in terms of exact events.
The Witcher season 2 is also interesting to me because I didn't hate it, and I'm largely convinced it's because I haven't read Blood of Elves (yet - I've read The Last Wish) and so had nothing to compare against. Maybe simply knowing how good something should be is enough to sour it, while ignorance is bliss.
-
Maturin
- Posts: 1569
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:48 am
Post
by Maturin » Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:08 pm
Yeah, of the 4 episodes I saw I really didn't interpret things the same way you did WB, but whatever. I already had a problem with the stilted acting and poorly-written dialogue regardless, so I don't think it's the show for me.
I'm with you on Witcher S2. It was alright, not as good as S1, but likewise I haven't read all the Witcher books so it's probably not pissing me off as much as RoP.
-
Sly Boots
- Bar Staff
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:34 am
- Location: Hampshire
-
Contact:
Post
by Sly Boots » Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:10 pm
Wrathbone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:50 pm
Yep, sorry, I've not helped there.
But I think there's an interesting wider discussion to be had on adaptations. I broadly agree that sticking to the source material where appropriate is best, but I've seen plenty of criticism (some here but mainly elsewhere) along those lines targeted at the Rings of Power and most of it doesn't necessarily stand up to scrutiny. RoP does make some adaptive choices - some out of necessity (e.g. 2000 years of history being compressed into a smaller timeframe, because a TV show with mortal characters doesn't work if every episode half the cast vanishes because it's moved on 50 years) and some out of legality. As I said before though, I don't think the vast majority of the adaptive choices are unfaithful to the source material in terms of spirit, if not in terms of exact events.
The Witcher season 2 is also interesting to me because I didn't hate it, and I'm largely convinced it's because I haven't read Blood of Elves (yet - I've read The Last Wish) and so had nothing to compare against. Maybe simply knowing how good something should be is enough to sour it, while ignorance is bliss.
Well, put it like this, S2 Witcher would be like making a new, edgier Lord of the Rings, and instead of accompanying Frodo to Lothlorien and beyond, Merry and Pippin are now killed off in the first act by Farmer Maggot for stealing vegetables. Also, Frodo and Sam now hate each other for 'reasons', and Gollum is now their love interest and a tense love triangle ensues. Gollum is also now an Ent. Gandalf is still a powerful wizard, but now he fuels his magical abilities through the slaughter of small animals. Saruman and Sauron have been combined into a new enemy, Saruronman, because the writers think having two antagonists is confusing.
And Middle Earth is now Slough.
-
Mantis
- Landlord
- Posts: 3477
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:39 pm
- Location: The Grid
Post
by Mantis » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:04 pm
I liked season 2 of The Witcher.
I haven't read the books.
-
Sly Boots
- Bar Staff
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:34 am
- Location: Hampshire
-
Contact:
Post
by Sly Boots » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:22 pm
Just imagine how much better the books are!
No joke, everything they added is objectively worse than what they took out, for no reason.
-
Wrathbone
- Local
- Posts: 3675
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:08 am
Post
by Wrathbone » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:55 pm
Sly Boots wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:10 pm
Well, put it like this, S2 Witcher would be like making a new, edgier Lord of the Rings, and instead of accompanying Frodo to Lothlorien and beyond, Merry and Pippin are now killed off in the first act by Farmer Maggot for stealing vegetables. Also, Frodo and Sam now hate each other for 'reasons', and Gollum is now their love interest and a tense love triangle ensues. Gollum is also now an Ent. Gandalf is still a powerful wizard, but now he fuels his magical abilities through the slaughter of small animals. Saruman and Sauron have been combined into a new enemy, Saruronman, because the writers think having two antagonists is confusing.
And Middle Earth is now Slough.
I’m sold.
-
Sly Boots
- Bar Staff
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:34 am
- Location: Hampshire
-
Contact:
Post
by Sly Boots » Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:35 pm
-
Snowy
- Local
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:57 am
- Location: Ballhang
Post
by Snowy » Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:30 am
I have read the Witcher books, but until this thread I hadn't realised that S2 of the tv series was meant to be following the plot of Blood of Elves, I am guessing because it did such a poor job of following the story in the book. For me it was a show that riffed on themes from the series of books and which was boring.
RCHD wrote:Snowy is my favourite. He's a metal God.
08/10/2003 - 17/08/2018
10501