General thread on Game Development issues/terrible behaviour

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Raid » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:41 pm

I just don't get it. Maybe it's the fact that I've worked in an environment that's been between 40% and 90% women for ten years, or maybe it's just the fact that I'm a half decent human being, but I just don't get how it's difficult to not force yourself on someone.
"He reportedly blocked a woman in the elevator and put himself against her, making groaning sounds and looking her in the eyes. Some of his collaborators in the Editorial team reportedly did the same, to the point it became [a signature move]."
I can't even imagine having the gall to try something like that, much less do it multiple times.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Mantis » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:38 pm

I used to feel the same but I've worked with people like that now and it isn't surprising anymore when you consider their mindset. I was pulled into a management wide bollocking a year or two ago because some of the older managers had been consistently harassing the younger and junior female staff. There were instances of bra straps being snapped back at the coffee point, someone being told they'd put too much weight on to be considered part of the top three fuckable women in the office, an older colleague being alone in a car with a younger woman and being very seedy trying to probe her about what kind of sex life she had with her boyfriend. Plus a few more.

In every case it was an older member of staff above the age of 40. And when we'd all been bollocked for it, a number of them had the gall to moan about it outside of the meeting. Apparently you can't just "have a laugh" or make jokes anymore. Not one of the main perpetrators (everyone in the office knew exactly who it was but specific action against them wasn't taken) thought in the slightest that they'd even done anything wrong. It was all just banter to them. It is literally normal behaviour for relics like that and they think any attempts to reprimand for it are just the PC or snowflake brigade.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Sly Boots » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:06 pm

As a male over 40, I'd venture to suggest men like this are just cunts, rather than it being the result of some general generational trend. I'd lay money on the fact there are plenty of offices around where younger guys act in similar fashion.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by DjchunKfunK » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:58 am

I think you are just lucky Raid, or haven't seen it as it is more clandestine I would be very surprised if your work place didn't have some sort of sexual harassment going on even on a lower level.

It could be that the games industry is more of a breeding ground for this kind of stuff due to the high ratio of men to women and I would think it is probably the same for any other industries with a similar ratio, I bet there is a ton of stuff going on in the finance sector for instance. I'm not really shocked that men behave like this, society is still very male dominated and punishment for this behaviour soft to non-existent. It's ingrained in male culture and until that is changed and women are empowered to report incidents safe in the knowledge that something will be done it will continue unfortunately.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Wrathbone » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:12 am

DjchunKfunK wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:58 am
It could be that the games industry is more of a breeding ground for this kind of stuff due to the high ratio of men to women and I would think it is probably the same for any other industries with a similar ratio
Not necessarily. Maybe I'm also lucky, but my software development office is about 80% male and I've never witnessed anything remotely like sexual harrassment in the 12 years I've been there, so either it's all happening very quietly or lots of men working with a small number of women isn't a major factor. We are quite a small office, though (about 25 people), so maybe that makes a big difference as everyone knows everyone else and what they're up to most of the time. If someone is a dick, that doesn't just get blurred out by the corporate machine - they have to face real, actual people that know them well, and I think that level of familiarity generates respect. I imagine in an office with 200+ people it's a very different culture, where the lack of any personal connection with anyone outside your immediate team makes it easier for some people to be horrible.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Snowy » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:23 pm

Sly Boots wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:06 pm
As a male over 40, I'd venture to suggest men like this are just cunts, rather than it being the result of some general generational trend. I'd lay money on the fact there are plenty of offices around where younger guys act in similar fashion.
This. I am 50 next month and would never dream of doing anything like Dave is describing, nor would I at any point in my working life including having spent many years in Sales.

I have also never seen this kind of behaviour - I think where I work were anyone to try it they would be crushed under an HR avalanche and their feet would rightly not touch.

For the record, banter is possibly my most hated word, because of the entirely negative connotations.
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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by DjchunKfunK » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:25 pm

Wrathbone wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:12 am
DjchunKfunK wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:58 am
It could be that the games industry is more of a breeding ground for this kind of stuff due to the high ratio of men to women and I would think it is probably the same for any other industries with a similar ratio
Not necessarily. Maybe I'm also lucky, but my software development office is about 80% male and I've never witnessed anything remotely like sexual harrassment in the 12 years I've been there, so either it's all happening very quietly or lots of men working with a small number of women isn't a major factor. We are quite a small office, though (about 25 people), so maybe that makes a big difference as everyone knows everyone else and what they're up to most of the time. If someone is a dick, that doesn't just get blurred out by the corporate machine - they have to face real, actual people that know them well, and I think that level of familiarity generates respect. I imagine in an office with 200+ people it's a very different culture, where the lack of any personal connection with anyone outside your immediate team makes it easier for some people to be horrible.
Yeah I think size plays a part, most of the allegations coming out are from large studios with 100+ employees.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Mantis » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:22 pm

That may have something to do with my office environment too as there's almost 200 people on my floor and nation wide it's a very big department.

Just to be clear Ian and Alan, I was only hazarding a guess that any measurable statistics might put incidents like this more within older generations. I don't actually know any stats to back it up, it just always struck me because the older gents in my office definitely have "old fashioned" views. I certainly wasn't suggesting that being over 40 means you're probably a misogynistic twat.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by DjchunKfunK » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:30 pm

I think it is less about people of a certain age and more about people in a position of power, it's just those people are probably also older.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Animalmother » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:14 pm

I was out with the gf last night in a restaurant, was very pleasant until 2 arseholes were sat in the table near us. I can probably say this is my first encounter with what appeared to a pair of incels from the stream of verbal diarrhoea they were spouting. Phases such as red pilled, I'm only marrying a virgin, I'm a nice guy, women don't get me and other misogynistic slurry spoken at a obnoxious volume.
We eventually asked to be moved which the staff were very nice about, said pair of dipshits were oblivious to the stares from everyone in earshot. Sad bastards.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by DjchunKfunK » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:41 am

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -and-abuse

Sounds like there are systemic issues at Ubisoft, also reveals that upper management pushed back on having just a female protagonist for AC: Syndicate, Origins and Odyssey using the usual cliche that female leads don't sell.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Wrathbone » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:46 am

Sadly that line of thought isn't limited to games (where it's demonstrably not true - Lara Croft, anyone?), and it's going to get worse this year with the unfortunate timing of the Black Widow film. For years, the powers that be at Marvel insisted that a Black Widow film would be a flop because female leads in superhero films don't sell. I read ages ago that this was primarily based on Elektra, which starred Jennifer Garner at the height of her fame and was a box office disaster. The fact that it was a terrible film was simply ignored. Now that they've finally realised that, hey, female leads might not be the problem and so Black Widow has gone ahead, it's going to underperform due to the pandemic.

Is it too much to hope that they don't blame it on Scarlett Johansson being a woman?

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Sly Boots » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:53 am

DjchunKfunK wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:41 am
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -and-abuse

Sounds like there are systemic issues at Ubisoft, also reveals that upper management pushed back on having just a female protagonist for AC: Syndicate, Origins and Odyssey using the usual cliche that female leads don't sell.
I feel like CEO Guillemot's quote about changing the company culture rings hollow, when there's no way he wasn't aware of the allegations against these senior figures that go back so many years. He may not be directly responsible for the abuse (as far as we currently know), but he is certainly complicit. And appointing other relatives into the now-vacant roles isn't going to change the culture of people being afraid to speak up due to the company leadership either being very close friends or actually related.

It sounds like an organisation rotten at its core, and even with these sackings it's hard to imagine things improving any time soon.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Raid » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:42 pm

Jim Sterling did a pretty good video covering the situation at Ubisoft this week. I know his usual presentation is a little unpalatable for some, but given the seriousness of all this, he's put his usual persona on the back burner to cover it.



The gist of it is; Yves Guillemot has been in charge of Ubisoft for the best part of 30 years. If he's genuinely unaware of any of this happening, he's a terrible CEO and needs to go. If he's very much aware as I suspect is the case, then he's covering for abusers and rapists and needs to go. And then be locked up. You don't change company culture because of bad press, you change the company culture to stop people being fucking abused in the workplace.

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Re: Skyrim Composer and Night in the Woods Dev Accused of Rape

Post by Sly Boots » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:08 pm

He's not wrong.

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