Elden Ring

[Mantis]

Oh yes. Dark Souls is my bread and butter and I am incredibly hyped for this following the gushing positivity after the first network test.

[ManBearSquid]

It looks amazing, but I've got some games on the go that I'd rather finish first or else they'd just fall by the wayside as this takes over. Soon...

[Raid]

I'm certainly tempted. I can't decide which platform to buy it for; it feels more like a living room game, but I'm limited to the previous generation console. I think I'm going to wait to see how it runs on the XBox One or PC before committing.

[DjchunKfunK]

Cant wait, got my Series X order sorted which hopefully arrives on time. Want to experience the big screen goodness rather than sit at my PC.

[Raid]

Perhaps unsurprising given the hype, Eurogamer have given it an Essential.

[DjchunKfunK]

Early reviews are stellar with a lot gushing about how it is the best game they have ever played.

[ManBearSquid]

This fella usually gives fairly balanced reviews.

[Raid]

So I did end up picking this up for the One X.

So, impressions from a Soulsborne (is it Elden Soulsborne: Shadows Die Twice now?) first-timer. I'm finding it a little easier to get to grips with having watched a bunch of playthroughs of the previous games than I perhaps otherwise would. It looks and appears to play pretty much identically to Dark Souls.

It's not the most... helpful start to a game. There's a rudimentary tutorial area which is fine (although I think you could actually walk right past it if you're not paying attention), but by that point you've already chosen a class based on stats you don't really understand and starting equipment that it doesn't explain the benefits of. I didn't realise for example that you can't block or parry with an offhand weapon (unless I've just not worked out how to do so yet), so the fact that I'd already chosen a class that came with two weapons was a little disappointing. The class comes with a shield too so it's not the end of the world, but I think a better description of each class would have helped.

Once you're out into the open world, you're immediately presented with an enemy that you *obviously* can't handle yet (he's dressed in golden plate armour with a shield bigger than you are, riding an elephant-sized horse, and when you get close a giant health bar appears) - I threw myself right at him to see how I got on and... well, I didn't; I got a hit or two in but then he slammed his two-storey halberd down from his mighty vantage point and cleaved me in two. It's easy to go around him, but I can't help but think he's put there to teach new players that the world is unforgiving - a bit like the first Goomba in the original Super Mario Bros that's there to teach new players to jump... except it's not a Goomba, it's Bowser with a minigun and his twelve identical siblings. I think it's a perfect introduction to the developers' sense of humour.

I've killed a couple of mini bosses now; a barely animated cat statue dressed in a robe and crown, and a terrifying beast man with combos so devastating they could win an Evo tournament. The former took me about 20 minutes to work out, the latter I actually managed first time as his move set was small and reasonably well telegraphed. King Cat taught me to dodge, and Beast Man taught me to observe. None of this is explained, I just know it from watching Ellen Rose and Johnny Chiodini suffer.

There's one enemy I've come across that I can't work out whether I'm supposed to be able to manage yet; there's a mid-sized ruin a short distance from where you emerge into the world, surrounded by some low-level humans that are relatively easy to despatch once you've had a little experience with the combat system. But at the centre there's a human with a massive shield and spear, and I've tried to take him down six or seven times now - I've got him down to about a quarter of his health, but I'd used up all four of my health flasks by that point. This was one of the things that concerned me going into this game - Soulsborne games have a reputation for being difficult, but an open world like this can throw enemies at you that are beyond your capabilities at the point you meet them. At what point do you admit defeat, realise you're not just doing something wrong and come back once you've got better equipment and stats?

There's a level of jank that I think a lot of games wouldn't be able to get away with. The Beast Man miniboss was wonderfully animated, but the King Cat was hilariously bad looking. I know it was a statue and a limited range of motion would be excusable, but it just looks utterly silly slowly floating through the air toward you. The stats screen is bewildering, and the tooltips that perhaps ought to be visible at all times are hidden (you have to go through a couple of menus to enable them). I also really don't like the fact that you can inadvertently queue multiple rolls up if you hammer the dodge button, which isn't helpful when you're panicking.

That's perhaps a fairly negative sounding first impressions post, but I'm actually really enjoying it. I've got to get to grips with some of the quirks of the combat system, but there's a real sense of discovery to it all. Say what you will about the level of description and tutorialising, but it does at least mean it's quite satisfying when you work something out.

[Lenny Solidus]

[Wrathbone]

There's one enemy I've come across that I can't work out whether I'm supposed to be able to manage yet; there's a mid-sized ruin a short distance from where you emerge into the world, surrounded by some low-level humans that are relatively easy to despatch once you've had a little experience with the combat system. But at the centre there's a human with a massive shield and spear, and I've tried to take him down six or seven times now - I've got him down to about a quarter of his health, but I'd used up all four of my health flasks by that point. This was one of the things that concerned me going into this game - Soulsborne games have a reputation for being difficult, but an open world like this can throw enemies at you that are beyond your capabilities at the point you meet them. At what point do you admit defeat, realise you're not just doing something wrong and come back once you've got better equipment and stats?

That area is definitely possible at the start, as I’ve done it. As with most situations in these games, it’s not what you do, it’s how you do it. I’ll spoiler my way of tackling it.

Spoiler

I went stealthy to start with, sneaking round the perimeter and backstabbing anyone I could without raising the alarm. When there was nobody else near the big guy, I waited for him to turn his back and plod away from me, then crept in for the backstab. That took him to half health, which made it much easier to take him down. It did bring the rest of the camp down on me as well, but by keeping a distance I managed to get most of them to take me on one at a time.

Utterly love the game so far. The challenge is tough but manageable and the world is glorious and full of curiosities. It’s still obtuse to newcomers compared to most games, but for a Soulsbourne game it’s almost forgiving at the start. It doesn’t feel like the game actively hates you and is mocking you from the offset, unlike Dark Souls. I’m glad I finished Demon’s Souls first because now I feel better versed in FromSoft’s language - the thing about not knowing if you’re ‘supposed’ to be able to take on certain enemies at any given time is mostly just experience and partly self-confidence. Levelling up doesn’t necessarily alter the challenge, it just gives you a bit more leeway each time.

[Mantis]

I really don't get this whole "Dark Souls" is designed to torment you and laugh at you thought. It isn't really any different to any of the other games in the series. There is no content in there that isn't beatable first time you find it. Yes it is a challenging game and unforgiving world, but if you approach each area with caution and patience then I don't think it's actually a hard game at all. When you are familiar with an area and know all the pitfalls then you can literally speed run through it and take no damage because everything is harmless.

My Elden Ring copy has arrived but I'm yet to spin it up. Very much looking forward to it later. I've been on total media blackout for it pretty much since it was announced so I'm going in totally blind.

[Wrathbone]

I really don't get this whole "Dark Souls" is designed to torment you and laugh at you thought. It isn't really any different to any of the other games in the series. There is no content in there that isn't beatable first time you find it. Yes it is a challenging game and unforgiving world, but if you approach each area with caution and patience then I don't think it's actually a hard game at all.

Nah. Firm rejection of that.

Demon's Souls is tough, certainly, but it is not as unforgiving as Dark Souls by a wide margin. I'm sure you can beat everything you encounter the first time if you're gifted with skills far beyond mine or are already well-versed in Soulsbourne games, but for the rest of us it's just punishing until you slowly build the necessary knowledge and patience to grind through it. I went back and tried the first few areas of Dark Souls again last week, and while I'm much better at it than I used to be, it's not easy in the slightest. More importantly, I just don't find it fun, whereas Demon's Souls and Elden Ring have a good balance of challenge and rewarding entertainment.

[Sly Boots]

What about the famous post-asylum bit of DS where the path you need to use is to the right, but if you go left you get relentlessly pummeled to death by unkillable skeletons?

I got about halfway through DS, enough to see what the fuss is about, but lost the will to carry on and never felt compelled to return to it. I'm glad I've at least tried one of their games so I get what I'm missing out on, but content to not play any more of their games (or indeed other purported 'Soulslikes'). Not for me.

[Mantis]

I don't think content gating with difficult enemies is any different to how it is in Elden Ring though, surely? In a branching or open world, you may go in a direction which brings you into tougher enemies before realising that you should come back with better gear. The skeletons in the graveyard and the ghosts under Firelink both require specific items before you can kill them, but once you have them they're a doddle just like most of the other standard enemies.

The only place where Dark Souls really matches it's legacy is Sen's Fortress, and yeah, screw that bloody place.

It's a game that rewards patience and gradual mastery of the mechanics so that you know what tactics may or may not work against different enemy types. I don't really see any of the series as being all that different in that regard.

[Sly Boots]

I don't think content gating with difficult enemies is any different to how it is in Elden Ring though, surely? In a branching or open world, you may go in a direction which brings you into tougher enemies before realising that you should come back with better gear. The skeletons in the graveyard and the ghosts under Firelink both require specific items before you can kill them, but once you have them they're a doddle just like most of the other standard enemies.

Well you said there were no enemies that aren't beatable the first time you come across them, and that's the first time in the game you have a choice of paths so probably 50% of first-time players ended up taking a path where there was no possible way to beat the enemies there.