The Gamers Arms

Hatredsheart wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:52 pm

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/elden- ... -25th-2022

Delays to something that GRR Martin is involved in? Surely not...

He needs to crack on writing the end of his damned story, last book was released in 2011 ffs

Snowy wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:27 am

He needs to crack on writing the end of his damned story, last book was released in 2011 ffs

I think you hit the nail on the head ages ago when you suggested he'd taken his money and was skiing down mountains of cocaine into soft, pillowy hookers. If that's the case, I don't blame him because no matter how good or bad the final two books are (or would be), they'll get slaughtered by the most vocal and insufferable corners of fandom. Plus he appears to be doing everything he can to troll people with new projects that take him away from writing Winds of Winter, like Elden Ring, or various film and TV projects, or other books that nobody asked for. It probably doesn't help that Dan Weiss and David Benioff dragged his life's work through a torrent of shit with their own lazy take on how it should end.

Get the skis out, George!

Haha I am pleased that my image of Mr Martin made such an impression

I was actually just hoping to get a proper ending rather than the atrocity that Weiss and Benioff created. I mean, Robert Jordan finished the Wheel of Time and he died before the last three books were written, so what is GRR's excuse. OK - coke and hookers I suppose...

I'm over that series now, the enormous wait combined with the show absolutely butchering the finale has killed my interest entirely. Doubt I'll even read them.

GRRM said a while back that his work on Elden Ring was completed a long time ago, so at least the delay this time around isn't his usual dilly dallying.

I wasn't overly taken by all the announcements surrounding this anyway. Taking the Dark Souls format and making it a huge open world was never something I thought the series particularly needed, quite the opposite infact, rightly designed intricate worlds were always a big part of the series' allure.

From the stuff that came out earlier in the year I don't think it is going to be your standard open world, sounded like Miyazaki's take on an openworld.

What does that mean exactly? The whole nature of an open world means that individual areas aren't going to have as much detail as in a linear one, unless you're hiring an unrealistic number of map builders. It's quantity over quality, which seldom in my experience makes for a better game. I'd still much rather have the suggestion of an open world than the practicalities of one.

I can't say I'm all that excited for Elden Ring anyway given that I'd much rather watch a Let's Play of a Soulsbourne game than actually play one (I love the design and the imagination on display, but the games just look massively frustrating for me).

Raid wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:17 pm

What does that mean exactly? The whole nature of an open world means that individual areas aren't going to have as much detail as in a linear one, unless you're hiring an unrealistic number of map builders. It's quantity over quality, which seldom in my experience makes for a better game.

I think it depends on the game experience you're looking for. Take the open world of Fallout New Vegas compared to self-contained areas of The Outer Worlds - both Obsidian games, both with similar tones and gameplay, but I hugely prefer the sandbox of Fallout. I get how in theory a linear or more limited-scope RPG should result in higher detail and therefore quality, but I struggle to think of many examples where I actually find that to be the case. To some extent it's just horses for courses, but I don't think it's anywhere near as simple as saying open worlds are inherently less detailed and lower quality than more focused games. The design quality of how a game is presented within an open world is much more important to me.

Raid wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:17 pm

What does that mean exactly? The whole nature of an open world means that individual areas aren't going to have as much detail as in a linear one, unless you're hiring an unrealistic number of map builders. It's quantity over quality, which seldom in my experience makes for a better game. I'd still much rather have the suggestion of an open world than the practicalities of one.

I can't say I'm all that excited for Elden Ring anyway given that I'd much rather watch a Let's Play of a Soulsbourne game than actually play one (I love the design and the imagination on display, but the games just look massively frustrating for me).

That it isn't just Dark Souls but in an openworld. The world isn't truly open in the sense you would expect, there are areas that they are calling dungeons that are self contained things and it sounds more like the hub and spoke nature of previous games, just the hub is a lot larger than normal.

Wrathbone wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:47 pm

I get how in theory a linear or more limited-scope RPG should result in higher detail and therefore quality, but I struggle to think of many examples where I actually find that to be the case. To some extent it's just horses for courses, but I don't think it's anywhere near as simple as saying open worlds are inherently less detailed and lower quality than more focused games. The design quality of how a game is presented within an open world is much more important to me.

My point is theoretical I suppose, as there's not an easy way of proving it. Fallout NV and Outer Worlds were developed so far apart that I don't think you can really compare them. I say that if you took the same development team with the same amount of time, and within the same era of software development, an open world is simply not going to be as detailed as a linear one. How could it be? You can't take the same resources and produce a much larger play area with the same detail as a smaller one. I should point out that I'm talking purely aesthetics and level design here, rather than quest design or atmosphere, although I think they can suffer too.

I just think "open world" is a marketing choice, and really doesn't make for a better game in the majority of cases. My thought is that a lot of companies try to produce open worlds on too small a budget or short a schedule. Rockstar seem to get it right, as there's enough detail in the environment and variety in their gameplay to make their worlds feel real and lived in, but they spend phenomenal amounts of money and time to produce them.

DjchunKfunK wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:49 pm

That it isn't just Dark Souls but in an openworld. The world isn't truly open in the sense you would expect, there are areas that they are calling dungeons that are self contained things and it sounds more like the hub and spoke nature of previous games, just the hub is a lot larger than normal.

Right. "Miyazaki's take on an open world" is "open world with dungeons", hardly an original concept.

15 minutes of gameplay, looks great.

Yep, now I'm interested again. It looks like far less of a departure from Dark Souls than the previous announcements led me to expect. It almost looks like one big mesh of all their experience over the last decade thrown into a huge, vibrant open world.

The only thing I'm not keen on is the crafting, but hopefully it'll be a fairly minor element.

Well it certainly looks like a Souls game, albeit significantly brighter and more colourful when outside. And crafting systems are one of the other hallmarks of an open world game I don't care for. There are just too many badly implemented or unnecessary ones that seem tacked on (we were literally just discussing this in our GR:Breakpoint squad). I think Breath of the Wild is the only crafting system I've really engaged with, partially because you can track specific items with the Sheikah sensor which takes a lot of the guesswork and slog out of it.

Just a cinematic but very pretty

Anybody else diving in on Friday? For the longest time I've bounced off Soulsbourne games, but this last week I've finally "got gud" as it were and got through most of Demon's Souls (last night I somehow defeated 6 bosses, including Flamelurker and Maneater, which a couple of days ago seemed impossible). Now I'm genuinely excited for Elden Ring.