The F1 thread

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Maturin
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Maturin » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:18 pm

Wrathbone wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:03 am
Have they somehow convinced Alonso that they could be competetive with the rule changes in 2022?
It can happen. Back when Hamilton joined the underperforming Mercedes team in 2012 I was one of the few voices who suggested their longterm plans could have indicated future performance, and convinced him to join. You never know!

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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:23 pm

Drarok wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:47 am
I'd much rather see other drivers go than Perez! Grosjean immediately comes to mind. Alonso and Raikkonen should probably retire rather than taking seats that up-and-coming drivers could have instead, too.
I have to agree. Grosjean doesn't feel particularly interested in the sport these days, nor does Kimi. At least Alonso cares, even if it's as much about himself as the racing.

Perez hyad been one of those drivers who could capitalise on front runners having problems, and I'll always remember him dragging that Sauber onto the podium when the tyres would have been down to the canvas for anyone else. I'd be sad to see him leave three sport when there are less deserving drivers on the grid. He may bring money to the team, but I really don't class him as a pay driver.

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Wrathbone
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Wrathbone » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:58 pm

Maturin wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:18 pm
Wrathbone wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:03 am
Have they somehow convinced Alonso that they could be competetive with the rule changes in 2022?
It can happen. Back when Hamilton joined the underperforming Mercedes team in 2012 I was one of the few voices who suggested their longterm plans could have indicated future performance, and convinced him to join. You never know!
I'd love it if Renault did have something special in the works, and 2022 should be a big shake up regardless. I'm unconvinced so far mainly because of how they played up their chances a couple of years ago and it wasn't exactly their best season, and also because Alonso has a knack for making the wrong team moves.

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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Rossell » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:28 pm

The Tuscan grand prix. Was utterly bonkers.


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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:34 pm

It was a better race than I was expecting, but with only one overtaking spot for F1 cars it was predictable outside of the chaos of the safety cars and restarts. Has there ever been a Grand Prix with three standing starts? I'm glad to see Albon get his first podium; the lad always seems to get his positions the hard way by overtaking around the outside.

I do think it was amusing that the Ferrari-red Mercedes safety car lead more laps than the Alfa-red Ferraris at Ferrari's 1000th Grand Prix at the Ferrari-owned Mugello circuit. It just seems that every time someone celebrates a birthday or anniversary in F1, they have terrible luck.

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Re: The F1 thread

Post by DjchunKfunK » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Yeah without the incidents I think it would have been a fairly dull race, as is usually the case nowadays. I have to say though it was nice to see a course with gravel traps that punish drivers for making mistakes, I've got so used to huge run-off areas that allow drivers to mess up and just come back onto the track.

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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Wrathbone » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:36 am

It’s a double-edged sword, though, because the likes of Verstappen get a DNF through no fault of their own. He had a heavy shunt from behind, but there’s a good chance he could have continued if he hadn’t been beached. And considering the reasonable performance Red Bull had, he might have had a look at the Mercs.

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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:03 am

I'm fairly sure Max would have retired yesterday anyway; he'd already lost about ten places off the line because of an engine issue. I know there was an incident behind him, but I get the feeling that he was slow when he was hit, and he would have escaped the incident had he been at his full racing speed.

But honestly I'm in two minds about the runoffs; there needs to be a risk/reward equation for drivers to push against, but on balance I'd prefer more runners in a race than cars beached in a gravel trap requiring a safety car to remove (and after the Jules Bianchi crash, I think they're basically a guaranteed SC or VSC now).

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Re: The F1 thread

Post by DjchunKfunK » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:14 am

Wrathbone wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:36 am
It’s a double-edged sword, though, because the likes of Verstappen get a DNF through no fault of their own. He had a heavy shunt from behind, but there’s a good chance he could have continued if he hadn’t been beached. And considering the reasonable performance Red Bull had, he might have had a look at the Mercs.
Max said he would have had to retire anyway so the shunt was immaterial to him being out of the race.

Personally I think the huge run-off areas have allowed drivers to get away with poor driving over the years, I think you see a lot more mistakes in races than you used to but there is no punishment as they can just drive back onto the course again. They also allow people to take unnecessary risks sometimes especially at the start, they know that if things don't go right they can use the run-off areas to escape so a mad lunge down the inside or really late breaking gets punished much less often than if there were gravel traps at more circuits.

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Re: The F1 thread

Post by arqueturus » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:23 am

Re: The run off areas, it's an interesting contradiction between bike and car racing - the gravel is needed to slow bikes down to prevent serious injuries and the opposite is the case for cars as they can no longer steer/brake once they're in there.

Cataluyna was modied with the removal of certain sand/gravel traps to assist F1 and that modification resulted in the death of Luis Salom in 2017 when he crashed and didn't slow down at all. It's one of the main reasons that bikes and cars can't always share tracks that much.

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Re: The F1 thread

Post by DjchunKfunK » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:13 pm

So Hamilton final equalled Schmacher's record of seven titles, and he did it in style by winning the Turkish GP from seventh on the grid. A truly brilliant driver and an amazing achievement.

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Wrathbone
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Wrathbone » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:01 pm

Yeah, today was a showcase of why he deserves those titles. The difference between Hamilton and Bottas was conspicuous.

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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:06 pm

Yup, he's absolutely worthy of those seven titles, and he couldn't have done it with more style. That track today looked like an ice rink, and seeing Bottas spin embarrassingly multiple times just proves that it's not just the Mercedes car that got Lewis to those championships.

I'm delighted for Perez as I always am when he gets on the podium, but also for Vettel who has had such a dreadful year that I reckon he could do with that pick-me-up. As for Stroll...I just can't make my mind up with him. Getting pole on a treacherous circuit ahead of both Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen, both of whom are pretty good in the wet, and then leading for two thirds of the race in similar conditions clearly deserves merit. Racing Point are still saying that their strategy call to pit him from the lead was sound, but when he was put back in traffic he just seemed to lose all of his composure. He's had moments of brilliance this year, but he has little over half the points that Perez does. It's absolutely bloody criminal that Perez doesn't have a drive for next year; he's one of the most consistent drivers in the sport *and* comes with hefty sponsorship money. I know there's the possibility of a Red Bull drive, but it does feel like those rumours are coming entirely from Perez' management.

I think while this year's championships have been foregone conclusions, it's been a really exciting year for the midfield. We've now had twelve drivers and seven teams on the podium; both drivers from Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren and Racing Point, and one each from Renault and Alpha Tauri. I can't remember the last time we had a season with such varied scoring.

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Snowy
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Snowy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:57 am

Raid wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:06 pm
Yup, he's absolutely worthy of those seven titles, and he couldn't have done it with more style. That track today looked like an ice rink, and seeing Bottas spin embarrassingly multiple times just proves that it's not just the Mercedes car that got Lewis to those championships.
I disagree with that. Hamilton waltzed into the Mercedes and a car that was then and has remained head and shoulders better than the competition year after year, where the only person Hamilton really has to beat is the team mate that he gets to pick.

Schumacher on the other hand went from a dominant Bennetton team to Ferrari, which at that point was more interested in drinking cappucino and looking cool than actually challenging for race wins. He then built the team up around him, clawing out improvements year on year until 2000 when they hit the sweet spot ending a title drought of over 20 years.

In my opinion Schuey earned his titles far more than Hamilton.
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Maturin
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Maturin » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:16 am

Nah, Schumacher was paired up with drivers who were never allowed to beat him on the track, unlike Hamilton who lost a title (and several races) to Rosberg and only had one occasion where he was allowed to pass Bottas for a win (which I think he repaid the favour in a later race). The Ferrari was still undoubtedly the best car in almost all Schumi's seasons, regardless of what input he may have put into it initially - which isn't easy to quantify. The Mercedes was also a dog to drive in Hamilton's first season in 2013 too.

Plus Hamilton never engaged in any cheating to win championships.

At the very least they were equally earned - if anything I might even put Lewis ahead due to the way he raced. Also, if Lewis had received the same deference as Michael, he'd be on 8 titles right now and around 110+ race wins, not 7 & 94.

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