Star Trek: Picard

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Raid » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:42 am

Stewart unfortunately just sounds like that now. He's lost that commanding tone he had during most of his career, but the guy is in his 80s now so it's hardly surprising. Jean Luc was 94 by the end of the first season of Picard, and while we've seen far older humans in the show (McCoy appears in the first episode of TNG at the age of 137), I think showing him as deteriorating is reasonable.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Sly Boots » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:24 am

Raid wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:42 am
Stewart unfortunately just sounds like that now. He's lost that commanding tone he had during most of his career, but the guy is in his 80s now so it's hardly surprising. Jean Luc was 94 by the end of the first season of Picard, and while we've seen far older humans in the show (McCoy appears in the first episode of TNG at the age of 137), I think showing him as deteriorating is reasonable.
I mean that's fine, but I don't remember 137-year-old McCoy tearing around the galaxy like an action star :lol:

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Raid » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:26 am

I don't remember Picard "tearing around the galaxy like an action star" at the age of 94 either, at least not under his own steam. He does a fair bit of walking, perhaps some shouting, piloting a ship, but he's hardly punching Borg to death.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Wrathbone » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:30 am

Surely the end of season 1 has an impact on that...
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...now that he's an android. I think? My memory is hazy. But if he is an android then presumably he'll be able to snap people in half and plow through walls like they were cardboard.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Raid » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:42 am

I suspect the limitations of the actor portraying him will affect that.
Spoiler
I was honestly a bit surprised that they chose to continue with Patrick Stewart portraying Picard once he shifted into the golem body. I mean sure, the actor is so intrinsically linked with the character that fans would never have forgiven such a change, but I'm unconvinced that Stewart can really play that character anymore. I love the guy, but some of the strange turns the character took from the films onward were supported by him. He was quite enthusiastic about the stupid dune buggy chase in Nemesis, and that ridiculous bit in Picard where he acts like a French fop was so unbelievably out of character for Jean Luc but very much in keeping of the slightly whimsical way Patrick carries himself these days that I assume that was his idea too.

There's still potential for the golem story to eventually lead to the replacement of the actor - perhaps Picard's consciousness is now unbound to a physical body much like Data's was, and I do hope it's a a major part of the series going forward, but frankly I have so little faith in the production that it won't just be mentioned in a few barbs from Q and then never spoken of again.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Alan » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:04 am

They specifically said at the end of season 1 that…
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it would be limited to his abilities and life expectancy

I can’t get over how stupid that ending was.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Raid » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:21 am

I think I've stricken the majority of it from memory, I was so frustrated with that ending. If it had happened in TNG I'd have been quite excited as there are so many philosophical discussions that should result from it, but with the nature of modern Star Trek I'm just expecting it to mean Picard now has phaser vision.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Alan » Mon May 23, 2022 8:19 pm

Finished season 2 and that was not as bad as I had heard here and other places!

Ok I hated:
Spoiler
They couldn’t write a better way to reunite them than random chance? Random happenstance coincidence is something I absolutely detest and something that’s so easy to fix.
Everyone in the past just happens to be a doppelgänger of season 1 folk?
The Agnes rubbish, it was Babylon 5 finale level gash
Wesley - I went from oh neat to fuck off in 20seconds. Also way to go guarding the timeline!
Green laser obsessed commandos because borg.
Resurrecting Elnor
The end - she couldn’t have just asked first?
Now I realise that’s like 98% of the show but I did like
Spoiler
It as a send off for Q
Picards Baltar issues wasn’t bad
Killing Elnor was wonderful though I’m not sure why it disintegrated everyone else but him but hayho
It annoyed me lots but I don’t think there was any point I was as annoyed as I was at the end of season 1. It’s one of the better Trek things of late. Maybe.

Now there is an additional caveat that may have coloured my opinion. I stopped Discovery after S2 and figured I should maybe catch up so I did a dumb thing and decided to start from S1 again and the first 2 episodes of S1 are some of the absolute worst pish ever to spew from a Trek writers pen. I feel like I would even feel positive about the shitey reboot movies if I happen to watch them along side the start of Discovery season 1. Michael is maybe worse than Elnor. I’ll give it two things though, the cloaked ramming was cool as hell and I also liked the jail cell open to space during a space battle - though not how she got free guilt tripping the computer.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Raid » Mon May 23, 2022 9:24 pm

I genuinely can't decide whether Picard S2 or Discovery S3 was worse (I haven't seen S4). They both contain some of the worst writing I've ever seen this franchise produce; not just the dialogue, but the utterly stupid scenes they contain. The producers evidently have no idea what made the franchise popular. Picard S2 compounds the stupid ending to S1, opting not for the philosophical goldmine of the nature of consciousness and Picard's true understanding of what made Data who he was, and instead went with "Picard is a robot now so he blows up a defibrillator lol".
Spoiler
Is it worth going into the pure idiocy of the chateau battle in the penultimate episode, where Picard's mind keeps wandering back to when his mother was being a bit funny while he's being shot at and nearly blown up with grenades. Or when notably normal humans Raffi and Seven somehow cross an open field littered with twenty partially assimilated Borg mercenaries pointing military assault weapons directly at them, despite only having a combat knife? Or the fact that the Borg are for no discernible reason being commanded by a bloody scientist with no referenced military training? Or that they bring back Elnor for a holographic rampage, presumably for an emotional punch but he's a character that I've never seen a positive comment about?

And then Kore, who has been in the background with Soong for most of the season, turns out to have absolutely no relevance to the plot. She doesn't even meet the rest of the main cast. Her entire arc could have been reduced to one line from Soong about him being experienced with genetics or cloning. But just like Tallinn and holographic Elnor, she just seems to be there to give the actress something to do, because the writers couldn't think of anything more meaningful to do with the character she played in season one. The Wesley Crusher thing at the end was the only barely interesting part of her appearance, and even that was just in there as a dumb cameo.

And then let's look at what happens to the Borg. I can forgive the Borg Queen's appearance throughout most of the series as a limbless torso and head; that's explained by the Confederation being sadists, but the fact that one person - a shy, socially awkward character, talks the Borg Queen out of her very singular mission to assimilate and conquer. Agnes Jurati convinces the Borg to stop. Agnes fucking Jurati. Not Seven of Nine, not Admiral Janeway, not Jean Luc Picard, no. Agnes Jurati. Who everyone seems to have just forgotten murdered Federation scientist Dr. Maddox in season one.
I long to just forget the whole thing exists, but typing all of that out made me actually angry. Fucking hell it's dire. I don't want to thank a deity for Strange New Worlds yet, as I've misplaced my trust in modern Trek before, but it's infinitely better.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Alan » Tue May 24, 2022 3:51 am

All fair points but due to how low Trek writing standards have fallen it’s not that bad in context. Yes it makes Encounter At Farpoint seem masterful but we live in a Trek era where the Beastie Boys are a super weapon. :|

Maybe they’re just trying to make Enterprise seem good, in context. Mission accomplished!

I think I’ll catch up with Discovery before watching SNW because I’m a sadist. I’m kind of looking forward to Michelle Yeoh’s spin off. I don’t think it’ll be good but I really like Michelle Yeoh. Now I’m giggling to myself thinking about when they really needed pattern enhancers but instead drew a com badge in the sand to get beamed out. :lol: Fuck off Discovery!
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Alan » Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:44 am



Do I have any faith it will be good? Nope! Is it a very good trailer at twirling my nostalgia bone. Yes it is! I hope it’s good because it would be nice to have a good send off for TNG.

I’d actually kind of like a series where they all just chill and be old and there’s no massive threat beyond the drama of grape picking and will he won’t he snuggle Beverly(and do robots need viagra). They’ve been through enough, they should be reveling in a peaceful galaxy that all their hard work created.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Raid » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:30 am

Alan wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:44 am
Do I have any faith it will be good? Nope! Is it a very good trailer at twirling my nostalgia bone. Yes it is! I hope it’s good because it would be nice to have a good send off for TNG.
I feel pretty much the same way, but we *had* a good send off for TNG - it was Picard sitting down at the senior officers' poker game for the first time at the end of All Good Things. They tried to give us another at the end of Nemesis, which was Data's... wake, I guess? Then, years afterwards, Picard got to have a chat with Data and say goodbye.

It feels like every time they do a send-off for the TNG crew, it's less meaningful, and I just don't trust the creative team behind Picard. I'm mostly just wondering who they're going to kill this time.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Wrathbone » Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:58 am

I’ve been catching up on Picard seasons 2 and 3 while I’ve been off sick. 2 is total crap, as others have said, but 3 is pretty great and at times is peak Star Trek for me, hitting all the notes that made TNG my favourite. A friend had told me that I could skip season 2 entirely as 3 basically ignores it, and I didn’t appreciate how literally true that is - you could go from season 1 to 3 and not miss anything, and I wish I’d done that.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Raid » Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:09 am

I'm thoroughly enjoying season 3 (haven't seen this week's yet). I've been reluctant to gush about it because I'm still waiting for a crushing disappointment given how seasons 1 and 2 turned out. I have a few quibbles over some of the dialogue; one TNG alumni utters something completely out of character for the sake of over-dramatising that really irked me after what was otherwise a superb episode, but minor irritations like that really haven't spoiled the experience. What I believe to be the first half (I think it's a 10 episode season) feels very much like an homage to Wrath of Khan, which is no bad thing.

Edit: I'm editing this because some of the stuff I originally said doesn't really apply now that I've seen the latest episode (which is excellent).

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Wrathbone » Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:50 am

And that’s the end of season 3 (and the Picard series).
Spoiler
Total fan service ending but I loved it, even if the resolutions to Jack being assimilated and the Borg usurping Starfleet (and almost destroying Earth) were a bit wishy-washy and convenient. I was especially pleased that they chose to break the idea that one or more major characters has to die heroically to lend weight or meaning to a significant event. That can work, and you could argue that it would have worked here, but by having everyone we’ve watched and cared about for 36 years come through unscathed it plays to the spirit of hope and positivity in the face of adversity that Star Trek used to hold as its beacon. There’s nothing wrong with a happy ending every now and then.

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