Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

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DjchunKfunK
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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by DjchunKfunK » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:33 am

Played a few hours myself and had some fun trying to unite Wales. Things looked dicey for a bit as one of my nephews started a faction to replace me with his brother and my attempt to murder him failed, thankfully not long after he died of natural causes which was a win.

I managed to unit Wales through a combination of warfare and murder. The king of half of Wales had a much larger army than me but fortunately he died and his son had reduced numbers, but they were still higher than mine. So I thought what would happen if the young king had an accident? One hunting trip later and his 4 year old brother was now in charge with an army of just over 600. One short war and a siege later and I was in control of the whole of Wales. Unfortunately soon after I lost Gwent to a Northumberland Lord who had a much larger army than me but I consoled myself with taking Oriel in Ireland.

I didn't pay attention to the succession laws so when I died Wales split into three which meant I had to retake it again via force. It's a bit annoying because I had the renown to change the laws but it didn't occur to me to check them. Hopefully I can build up enough this time to do so, it would be nice to declare the Kingdom of Wales as well but that will take 500 gold which seems a bit of a ways off.

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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Snowy » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:01 am

3 hours vanished like morning mist - here we go again =D>

Started as the Duke of Kent, was the closest to my native Hampshire that I could take. Liking everything so far and only on my first ruler of my dynasty.
RCHD wrote:Snowy is my favourite. He's a metal God.
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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Snowy » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:19 am

It is eating my life!

Started a new campaign in the Norse era as Bjorn Ironsides. Bjorn died of consumption, but not before expanding by conquering his neighbour to the south and plucking East Anglia as a ripe target from which to launch campaigns into England. Since then, his dynasty has taken the kingdoms of Sweden and Norway, Wessex, Brittany and slivers of northern England and Ireland. Every single catholic that I capture is burned at the stake, something which I suspect is going to make my life extremely difficult in the future, but I have read enough to know that for the Norse gods to survive, christianity needs to be ground underfoot at every opportunity.

My predecessor married a giant but was unfortunately possessed of a lisp himself. The current king of Sweden, Norway and bits of England and France is a lisping giant.

For the glory of Odin! (And the evaporation of the remains of my week off...)
RCHD wrote:Snowy is my favourite. He's a metal God.
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Raid
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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Raid » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:08 pm

I have never played a Crusader Kings game (or really anything of its ilk), but you're definitely swaying me towards giving it a try.

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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Wrathbone » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:15 pm

For me it’s as good as strategy gets. There are so many well-designed, interacting systems that it rewards you if you’re diligent and sharp enough to see how they could all play out and nudge things in the right direction. It’s a bit like chess in the sense that your success is only limited by your skill, but chess doesn’t have complex personalities and relationships for each pawn and bishop, nor does it have dynastic grudges centuries in the making or the constant pressure of ensuring a strong succession.

I’m comfortable saying after a fair few hours that CK3 is firmly better than 2. It’s not vastly different, just refined to the point where you can spend your time playing it rather than struggling against how it works.

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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Snowy » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:14 am

Wrathbone wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:15 pm
For me it’s as good as strategy gets. There are so many well-designed, interacting systems that it rewards you if you’re diligent and sharp enough to see how they could all play out and nudge things in the right direction. It’s a bit like chess in the sense that your success is only limited by your skill, but chess doesn’t have complex personalities and relationships for each pawn and bishop, nor does it have dynastic grudges centuries in the making or the constant pressure of ensuring a strong succession.

I’m comfortable saying after a fair few hours that CK3 is firmly better than 2. It’s not vastly different, just refined to the point where you can spend your time playing it rather than struggling against how it works.
This is pretty much on the money. I bounced off CK2 so many times initially - I knew there was a great experience to be had but I simply didn't understand any of what it wanted me to do to unlock it. I ended up watching about 3 hours of how-to videos on YT just to get my head around the basics. CK3 simplifies that aspect of it quite a lot - don't get me wrong it is still a complex beast but it doesn't actively fight against you like the old one could seem to do on occasion.
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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Wrathbone » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:22 am

The only thing I've struggled with initially with CK3 is character stress, which kept being referenced everywhere but I couldn't find anywhere that told me how stressed I am. I finally found it - it's a narrow bar to the left of your character's portrait at the bottom-left of the screen. Well worth keeping an eye on it so your character doesn't snap like mine did. #-o

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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Snowy » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:52 am

Yeah I read the RPS review which referenced the same thing so hunted that out early on. Decisions tab gives you a lot of options that can reduce stress levels.
RCHD wrote:Snowy is my favourite. He's a metal God.
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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by DjchunKfunK » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:14 pm

Wrathbone wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:15 pm
For me it’s as good as strategy gets. There are so many well-designed, interacting systems that it rewards you if you’re diligent and sharp enough to see how they could all play out and nudge things in the right direction. It’s a bit like chess in the sense that your success is only limited by your skill, but chess doesn’t have complex personalities and relationships for each pawn and bishop, nor does it have dynastic grudges centuries in the making or the constant pressure of ensuring a strong succession.

I’m comfortable saying after a fair few hours that CK3 is firmly better than 2. It’s not vastly different, just refined to the point where you can spend your time playing it rather than struggling against how it works.
I disagree a bit with this, whilst I think the CK series is a lot of fun and there is strategy in it, the randomness of events prevents it from being a top tier strategy game. That doesn't mean it isn't fun to play and the events do add something to it but I see it more as a kingdom simulation game than a strategy game.

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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Wrathbone » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:17 pm

I disagree with your disagreement. ;) The randomness for certain actions and events is almost always alterable. If you want to murder someone and you only have a 70% chance of success, you can take that risk or you can take action to improve your odds. Seemingly random events like dying of old age are impacted by things like health, which can be improved in several ways, and if you’re shrewd enough you can make sure to marry people with positive inheritable traits to mitigate the chances of dying young. If there was no RNG whatsoever then it would be little more than a spreadsheet. Instead, you work towards as much certainty as you can muster in your actions, which is arguably more strategic than simply punching in the numbers to get a guaranteed result.

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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Snowy » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:38 am

I also agree with Wrathbone's disagreement with DJ's disagreement.

For me the huge depth to the differing things that can happen in CK games is head and shoulders above those of other strategy titles precisely because of their seeming randomness - they add that human element.

As an example, playing as the king of Sweden as I am currently (having clawed my way to that position), everything seemed to be going swimmingly, not a single ripple on my pond. I suspected that was too good to be true and took a look at my list of vassals. One was quite heavily in the red with me opinion-wise, so I dispatched my spymaster to unearth secrets at his court. Lucky that I did too, as this action unearthed a plot to kill me. My spymaster was promptly repurposed to disrupting plots and I hatched a counter-plot to kill my vassal (while I knew of the plot to kill me I had not managed to link it to him so could not just imprison or execute him). Bribes and hooks were brought into play to secure plotters to my cause and thankfully I managed to put him six feet under, at which point the plot against me winked out of existence.

My point here is that there are always cogs within cogs within cogs turning in a CK game. I was lucky in unearthing that plot and saving myself, but did not manage to catch whoever it was who subsequently assassinated my son and carefully groomed heir, bolloxing my succession plans. It is this depth that makes the game for me (things can always come out of left-field) but I do get that others will find it maybe too random.
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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by DjchunKfunK » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:39 am

I wouldn't class that as random stuff Snowy, that is part of the game. I agree that you can mitigate some of the randomness but you are still at the mercy of a dice roll in regards to the heirs you get and your ultimate death, one bad roll and it can throw everything into chaos and whilst that can be fun in it's own way it detracts from the strategic nature of the game.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying this is a bad game, or a bad strategy game, I just don't think it is the top when it comes to strategy, I'd put EUIV ahead for instance in terms of pure strategy.

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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Raid » Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:31 pm

So I grabbed this from gamepass and tried the tutorial. This is, err, a bit complicated looking. I made it through the tutorial (or what may have been the start of the tutorial, it wasn't clear), and while it talks you through the basics of the systems, it doesn't exactly leave you with a distinct goal to work towards while you learn. To put it another way, I sorta know how the interface works, but not really why to use any of it.

Would anyone recommend a video tutorial series?

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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by DjchunKfunK » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:29 pm

This playlist looks like it might be helpful.


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Re: Crusader Kings 3: on Steam and PC Game Pass

Post by Sly Boots » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:19 pm

Sucked me in and devoured my afternoon. I'm still playing the tutorial kingdom - Ireland - and at the moment about 2/3rds is under my control.

I'm married, have an adult heir and a couple of kids (one of whom I gave an earldom to, the scamp), I have a court who are all loyal to me and a council of people who are all pretty good in their roles.

At the moment I'm just manufacturing claims on my neighbours and then rolling into town to take their lands by force, so far without hiccup.

It all seems to be going quite well, but for some reason I'm left with the nagging feeling I'm missing a layer or not playing correctly somehow :-k

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