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The Independent Group
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:09 pm
by Tommy
Since Brexit's taking a backseat for a while and there's very little to argue about.
Thoughts? Good idea? Bad idea?
I'm as yet undecided. Though, I do feel it offers something that I can possibly get on board with. As it is, I can't say I feel either welcome or invested in Labour. Hopefully as policies/voting patterns become more apparent it'll offer a better idea. I think people might be being too quick to claim that it purely harms Labour too (putting aside the three ex-Tories earlier today).
I doubt we're finished with defections either.
Re: The Independent Group
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:23 pm
by Mantis
I don't disagree with the idea of it in theory, but unfortunately a significant chunk of the Labour MPs that have quit are just Blairite stooges who have wanted Corbyn out since the day he was elected as party leader, so I have a lot of doubts about their motives with this. And regardless of how much the Conservative MPs say that the current Tory party has strayed too far from looking after the countries interests, the MPs in question still spent years voting in favour of various cuts to services and social policies that were designed to protect the most vulnerable in society. They have blood on their hands.
I always reckoned that Brexit would spell a large scale shake up for both main political parties, at this point it's impossible to say whether the recent splits are going to be significant or that the MPs involved have simply doomed themselves to obscurity and will be forgotten about in a month. I really don't relish the idea of a 'Centrist' party with the likes of Smith, Leslie, Umunna, Soubry and Wollaston at the helm; because they are all Neo-Liberals and will do nothing to address the real root of the problems in our country. I have zero faith or trust in any of them.
Re: The Independent Group
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:39 pm
by Tommy
Mantis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:23 pm
I don't disagree with the idea of it in theory, but unfortunately a significant chunk of the Labour MPs that have quit are just Blairite stooges who have wanted Corbyn out since the day he was elected as party leader, so I have a lot of doubts about their motives with this. And regardless of how much the Conservative MPs say that the current Tory party has strayed too far from looking after the countries interests, the MPs in question still spent years voting in favour of various cuts to services and social policies that were designed to protect the most vulnerable in society. They have blood on their hands.
I always reckoned that Brexit would spell a large scale shake up for both main political parties, at this point it's impossible to say whether the recent splits are going to be significant or that the MPs involved have simply doomed themselves to obscurity and will be forgotten about in a month. I really don't relish the idea of a 'Centrist' party with the likes of Smith, Leslie, Umunna, Soubry and Wollaston at the helm; because they are all Neo-Liberals and will do nothing to address the real root of the problems in our country. I have zero faith or trust in any of them.
I agree with most of that tbh. Unsure I'd go as far as to agree that Umunna et al are all 'the same', but I get your point. I think who else joins will be vit\l in shaping the party that will presumably come out of it.
Oh, I also hate the phrase Blairite stooge, but that's a whole other point. I understand what you mean, and they definitely wanted Corbyn out from the beginning. Though I don't remember how long it was before I did too now tbh. Seems like an age ago...
Re: The Independent Group
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:50 pm
by Wrathbone
There are rumours about Blair joining them, in which case it may as well be New New Labour, or the Warmonger Party.
Re: The Independent Group
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:17 pm
by Raid
If Blair joins, they'll never achieve anything. He's just too divisive, and I suspect both he and the group understand that. Maybe he'll consult, but I can't see him becoming a member.
Re: The Independent Group
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:26 pm
by Tommy
Raid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:17 pm
If Blair joins, they'll never achieve anything. He's just too divisive, and I suspect both he and the group understand that. Maybe he'll consult, but I can't see him becoming a member.
The sad thing is i've no doubt he has a huge amount to offer Labour and TIG, but he's just too toxic.
Re: The Independent Group
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:36 am
by DjchunKfunK
Using the word centrist to describe this collection of MPs is a joke as their views sit firmly on the right. They embody the status quo, pro-cuts, anti tax increases for the rich, anti re-nationalisation, so I fail to see how they are supposed to attract the public's attention. If they really are centrists why didn't they join the Lib Dems as they are meant to be the centre party. The fact that some in the media are in favour of this shows how it is very much not something we need.
It's also the completely wrong time to be doing this, they are supposed to be focusing on Brexit and instead MPs are grandstanding on TV.
Re: The Independent Group
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:05 am
by Strudel
I'm not sure what "Focusing on Brexit" really means any more. Nothing is being done. Everyone's just standing around hoping they don't get blamed for the on-coming catastrophe.