US Congressional hearing on UAPs

[Wrathbone]

The US congress has just held a hearing with witnesses and a whistleblower testifying under oath on the subject of UFOs / UAPs and the government's supposed knowledge and recovery of them. For anyone who pays attention to the topic, this is a landmark moment - not because anything new was revealed (at least not in the public hearing), but because of the context of how this is being dealt with.

This is the full hearing:

https://www.youtube.com/live/KQ7Dw-739V ... are&t=1080

There's much to speculate on, and I don't have a tinfoil hat to hand, so I'll try to stick to the facts because some of this is wild, regardless of what (or who) you believe.

The immediate background to this is that a few weeks ago, a highly-credentialed, well-respected US intelligence official named David Grusch, who had clearance on essentially ALL special access programmes before resigning in April, claimed whistleblower status to tell Congress that there is a secret UAP recovery and reverse-engineering programme within the US government that evades Congressional oversight. He then gave an interview with Australian investigative journalist Ross Coulthart, who had independently verified Grush's claims with other witnesses Coulthart is in contact with.

Grusch is the first US official making these sorts of claims about UAPs who has gone through the proper whistleblower process, which means if he is found to be lying then he faces jail time. His career was flourishing and he ostensibly had no reason to resign other than the whistleblowing. Additionally, no part of the government or military has yet come forward to refute any of his claims. But most importantly, Grusch is not asking to be taken on his word - he's been very clear that he's asking Congress to follow the leads he's providing and investigate them. And this is where it gets really interesting.

Prior to the hearing, congressman Tim Burchett and congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna went to follow up some preliminary witness testimony at Eglin air force base, which had been pre-arranged by the congressional oversight committee. When they arrived, the commanding general of the base refused to allow them entry and basically told them to fuck off. Both representatives have spoken publicly about it and have apparently not been given any explanation as to why they were barred from speaking to the witnesses. It could just be the general flexing against Washington politics, even if goes beyond his authority to deny Congress access to key witnesses, but it screams of no smoke without fire.

The hearing itself involved Grusch, along with former pilots and first-hand witnesses to UAP encounters Ryan Graves and David Fravor, testifying under oath before Congress. Regardless of the reality of what's going on with UAPs, this is being taken seriously by the US government now. Much of the testimony from Grusch has been deferred to private 'skiff' hearings outside of a public context, but Grusch did make some extraordinary claims:

- Some UAP crash sites involved non-human biological material. He didn't go as far as saying bodies, but that seems to be his implication.

- To his knowledge, the US recovery programme has existed since the 1930s.

- He is going to provide exact locations to Congress of recovered UAP materials, along with names of specific individuals who are involved in the programme, individuals who are witness to it and individuals who have threatened his life since coming forward.

- He's also providing details of dozens of people he personally knows who have been injured as a result of recovering and reverse-engineering UAPs, as well as some who have been attacked to conceal the programme.

- The idea that UAPs are foreign or domestic technology was firmly refuted by all three witnesses.

Maybe it's all a big lie and Grusch, Graves and Fravor are making it all up, as well as the 40 or so witnesses in the military and intelligence community that Congress have so far spoken to in private and who have concurred with Grusch's story. Doesn't seem likely at this point, though. I've been fascinated by the topic all my life, but I've always maintained a rational, skeptical outlook on it. This is the first time where I've concluded that there is something to it - that it's more likely there is a non-human intelligence involved with UAPs than the possibility that there isn't. Just stop and think about it: an impeccable US intelligence official with corroboration by his peers has testified before Congress under oath and penalty of jail, while being threatened by his former superiors, that the US found non-human biology amidst the wreckage of non-human technology. That is huge, regardless of whether it's true.

I think the next few months could be very interesting.

[Sly Boots]

It's really interesting, keen to see where it goes.

My position has always been that I believe intelligent life on other planets is plausible, but given the infinite size of the universe, and the near-infinite time it's been in existence and will exist after humanity is no more, that the likelihood of there being another space-faring species who chanced upon us at the exact point we started to investigate space more seriously ourselves, seemed infinitesimally small.

But hey, unlikely doesn't mean impossible, does it?

[Raid]

Thanks for the write-up. I genuinely had no idea any of this was happening, other than vaguely remembering a headline about UAPs and not realising the significance.

I guess my position is that I have difficulty imagining a universe utterly devoid of life when it's practically infinite and there not being anything obviously special about Earth beyond size and proximity to a suitable star. I think it'd be the height of arrogance to assume that in a universe of a billion trillion stars, ours would be the only one with a planet orbiting at the right distance to support life. But just as it's possible to believe there has to be life beyond the Sol system, it's also possible that there isn't. I need to see proof either way, and there's no way we'll prove that there isn't non-terrestrial life during my lifespan.

As for why we don't know about alien life yet, you have to assume that any civilisation capable of interstellar travel would have the capability of knowing what they'll find when they arrive. Human society has changed dramatically in the last 200 years, moving from largely agrarian to largely centralised that would be easier to spot from a distance, and only having put anything beyond our atmosphere in the last 70 years.

Anyway, I'm paying attention. I have absolutely no difficulty believing that there's a secretive part of the US military attempting to recover non-terrestrial artifacts - I've been a science fiction fan since I could speak and that budget has to be going somewhere. What matters is whether they've actually managed to do so.

[Animalmother]

Its also been speculated that the universe is still too young for major civilizations to exist yet. It's nearly 14 billion years old but will go on for trillions more so maybe we're some if not the very first to evolve. Maybe it'll be humans from the very distant future abducting primitive aliens and violating their bum holes...

[Wrathbone]

One thing I've noticed having delved deeper than usual into the subject ever since the Grusch interview is that nobody who knows anything about UAPs is saying aliens. Grusch even stated that he doesn't use the term extra terrestrial after congressman Burchett used it in the hearing, because he prefers to keep an open mind regarding the nature of the supposed intelligence. Given how much he claims to know, that suggests to me they either have no idea what it is or a very good idea that it's not aliens in the traditional sense. Alternatives that he's suggested (and I've heard these cited in interviews with other former officials such as Luis Elizondo, the former head of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, or AATIP) are extra-dimensional or time-travelling entities, or even another terrestrial intelligence that comes from the deep oceans, which of course are largely unexplored.

[Raid]

or even another terrestrial intelligence that comes from the deep oceans, which of course are largely unexplored.

I can believe in extra-terrestrial life because the distances involved are so enormous, but I'd need to see proof of intelligent, non-human life under our own planet's oceans before I'd consider it. We'd have at least some evidence by now; EM emissions, debris, fishmen.

[Wrathbone]

Yeah, I’m unconvinced on the fishmen. There are many reports of UAPs entering and leaving the oceans, though, so maybe aliens have set up shop there?

[Sly Boots]

Yeah, I’m unconvinced on the fishmen. There are many reports of UAPs entering and leaving the oceans, though, so maybe aliens have set up shop there?

Weirdly this is the exact plot of John Wyndham's The Kraken Wakes, which I read literally two months ago for the first time.

[Lenny Solidus]

Yeah, I’m unconvinced on the fishmen. There are many reports of UAPs entering and leaving the oceans, though, so maybe aliens have set up shop there?

They took up permanent residency in our oceans long before we were a spore on the horizon. I know it's cooky sounding but I hold a genuine belief that many perhaps not all the sightings by naval ships and their occupants of flighted objects quickly entering and escaping the sea are at the very least bound to some truth.

Earth is prime real estate given the 71% water ratio, there's a reason these UFO's/UAP's seemingly seem to come and go so very quickly and as you give leaning to - it's because they don't actually leave. It makes absolutely perfect sense in the grander scheme of things that they do whatever actions they have to purposely undertake above sea level and retire right back - to and fro, to and fro. We can speculate on any such photos produced attesting to actual evidence but today's hearing was extremely eye-opening and gave lots of food for thought for sure. Contact has already been made at some unknown level but also we are the aliens too and this isn't our planet at all.

Spoiler

[Drarok]

I cannot get on board with the theory that there's some supreme beings with incredible technology, but they just can't seem to crack autopilot or crash-avoidance systems. What, our puny missiles can bring inter-dimensional or sea-faring beings down?

Also, the careful wording like "non-human biological material" smells fishy. (Heh)

I doubt anything major will come of this either way, it'll peter or someone will "fall" out of a window, or it'll turn out to be asteroids smashing to earth with bacteria on them or something that fulfils the brief in a boring way.

Given that everyone and their dog carries a camera with them these days, the picture and video evidence has remained spotty and low-quality. Like JD and Dr Cox's "shaved the baby" story, I'm not buying it.

[Wrathbone]

I cannot get on board with the theory that there's some supreme beings with incredible technology, but they just can't seem to crack autopilot or crash-avoidance systems. What, our puny missiles can bring inter-dimensional or sea-faring beings down?

No claims have been made about firing upon UAPs, but the rest was addressed by Grusch in the hearing. His argument was that no matter how superior your intelligence is, technology is fallible. Another argument I’ve heard elsewhere is that perhaps the UAPs are dealing with an environment alien to them - e.g. some crashes appear to have been struck by lightning, so could it be possible that lightning is not something they’re familiar with or expected? Personally I’m quite happy to accept that an advanced intelligence capable of technology beyond our understanding of science can still cock things up. Look at how our best scientists famously arsed up an expensive space mission because some were measuring in metric and others in imperial.

Also regarding footage quality, there are claims (specifically from Luis Elizondo - not sure about Grusch or others) that the US Navy is in possession of very clear photographic and video evidence of UAPs, some of which appear to show occupants. As for public footage, the “everyone has a smartphone” argument is balls, to be frank. The next time you see a plane fly by, try taking a video of it with your phone. I guarantee it will be shit. Then imagine that it’s not a plane but something that appears utterly alien, and imagine the adrenaline rush and shaky hands you might experience. It’s not going to result in better quality.

[Lenny Solidus]

Given that everyone and their dog carries a camera with them these days, the picture and video evidence has remained spotty and low-quality. Like JD and Dr Cox's "shaved the baby" story, I'm not buying it.

Yeah, no disrespect intended but this is kind of an invalid argument. You could produce the most caught in 4k footage imaginable and it would still get mass debunked. Besides modern phone cameras in general are designed for closer shots ie selfies immediate surroundings etc and are not designed whatsoever to have the kind of telephoto capabilites required for the kinds of shots we are discussing here. Add in movement, weather condition, relative distance etc etc and it's not exactly difficult to comprehend why. As noted by the hearing ''Sightings are routine'' - that's all you need to really hear.

If anyone has not seen please do check out a dip into the now very famous Dr Leir involved footage also known as the Turkey cruise ship sighting which I believe has not yet been debunked though many have tried...

[Mantis]

It's weird how little coverage any of this seems to be getting in the press.

I wouldn't be surprised if it just turns out to be a huge government scam where they've been siphoning off funds into a completely unaudited black hole to fund all manner of other shady practices for decades. Or the downed object carrying non human biological matter turns out to be a meteorite with a bit of bacteria on it. Either way, you'd think that the level of seniority of the whistleblowers and seriousness that Congress are reacting to it all that it would be making much bigger waves in the media.

[Wrathbone]

The BBC had a live text coverage of it which came across as an afterthought. At one point they posted a patronising summary of why people believe in UFO conspiracy theories, which only serves to trivialise something which Congress are treating seriously. Any live news coverage of UAPs (particularly in the US) typically involves cartoon images of little green men backed by the X-Files theme.

And you're right, it could all be be a scam. The famous ufologist Dr Steven Greer (who comes across as arrogant and skeezy to me) has suggested that it's about the government exercising control rather than aliens. Loads of people will shout Project Bluebeam whenever UAPs are discussed - the supposed use of holographic projections to invent an alien threat as an excuse for governments to sieze more control. I don't put much stock in a theory that seems to be lifted from Spiderman: Far From Home, but maybe it's all misdirection.

To me it's somewhat irrelevant, because it IS being treated seriously by people in power and that in itself is newsworthy, regardless of the truth of the matter. Let's say that there is no non-human intelligence behind UAPs and then the President came up to the podium and announced for whatever reason that aliens are real and the US is in contact with them - that would still be one of the most important moments in human history, because it would mean the government is actively manipulating the public in a calculated and nefarious manner. The hearing yesterday was a few steps below that sort of announcement, but it still involved a senior official testifying pulicly under oath with similarly extraordinary claims. I think there is substance to those claims, but even if there isn't and Grusch is somehow complicit in a planned act of misdirection, it's nevertheless a watershed moment.

[eny]

You should bookmark C-SPAN, it is brilliant for all this governmental stuff:


https://www.c-span.org/video/?529499-1/ ... nomena-uap



Also, Jose Pagliery is a great follow on Twatter, always on indictment watch as well as running commentary on hearings. Good summary here: