Elden Ring

[Mantis]

Yeah fair point. The skeles are doable because you can just kick them off the ledges but the ghosts are literally impossible until you have the items.

[Raid]

I don't think content gating with difficult enemies is any different to how it is in Elden Ring though, surely?

In a branching game you're maybe given two or three paths at once. In Elden Ring you could end up in 50 different places. In theory it's no different, but in practice, particularly to someone new to the series, it's not as easy to judge when you're struggling.

I wouldn't really say that these games are unfair as such; they're heavily skill-based and I suspect you can avoid anything you know is coming. But From Software do occasionally throw in a curveball deliberately designed to catch you out which I'm guessing is supposed to keep you from ever really feeling safe. Outside Xtra did a video on them just last week in fact. Holes that drop you to your doom in the middle of corridors that aren't easy to see without fiddling with the camera. Enemies that lurk around corners for no reason other than to surprise you. My favourite item on that list, a ball of skeletons that chases you down a staircase and runs you over. On the second attempt you avoid it, it hits the bottom of the staircase, and then reverses back up the stairs and runs you over a second time. You can just imagine the developers laughing their arses off as they program it. It's darkly funny in a game which is already so challenging.

That area is definitely possible at the start, as I’ve done it. As with most situations in these games, it’s not what you do, it’s how you do it. I’ll spoiler my way of tackling it.

Spoiler

I went stealthy to start with, sneaking round the perimeter and backstabbing anyone I could without raising the alarm. When there was nobody else near the big guy, I waited for him to turn his back and plod away from me, then crept in for the backstab. That took him to half health, which made it much easier to take him down. It did bring the rest of the camp down on me as well, but by keeping a distance I managed to get most of them to take me on one at a time.

Yeah, I'll have to give that a go.

Edit: I did get him using that method, but I think I understand why I was struggling. My backstab didn't do anywhere near half damage, it was more like a third, and that was after I'd upgraded it to a +1 (which I didn't have at the point I made the original post). I kinda get the feeling I'm having a difficult time because the scimitar I took at the start isn't very effective. I did get a rapier when I was first brought to the Roundtable Hold (purely because it scaled better with dexterity), and that does two thirds of the same guy's health bar on a backstab (although it's really not very easy to use otherwise, so I don't know how much use I'll get out of it). There's clearly a lot of variation in damage between weapons.

Question: Does it matter which hand you're holding your weapon in? I only ask because I seem to get a technique for my shield (Parry) but not for the sword.

[Raid]

So how exactly are you meant to fight enemies that have a wide-arcing slash attack that has more range than your roll moves you backward? You can't dodge forwards, to the side or backwards, and these things have a four hit combo that completely drains my stamina if I block it. The combo advances them so quickly that I just can't get away from them, and they frequently attack in groups.

Enemy spoilers, I guess, for the area Siofra River:

Spoiler

These ghost brute things are absolutely destroying me. Not only do they attack in groups, but they just appear out of thin air when you approach their area, and frequently aggro immediately. The archers can spot you from a mile away, and some of them have arrows that move so quickly they can hit you when you're sprinting on Torrent while moving perpendicular to them. And because they're transparent, it's not easy to work out whether they're facing away from you if trying to backstab them.

I can usually deal with one of them at a time, but honestly it's still a bit hit and miss as to whether I need to chug a flask or two. Most of the time that isn't possible anyway because they seem to have a shared alertness. They take so much damage to kill that it's pretty much impossible to take out one before his friends are on top of you. They're ruining my enjoyment of what is a very cool looking area because they're absolutely everywhere. I've been bashing my head against them for an hour trying to work out how to fight them.

[Wrathbone]

What’s you’re equipment load (if you go to the menu it should be on the right-hand side)? If it’s at heavy load then your rolls won’t go as far. Try unequipping things to get it down to medium load. Upgrading endurance increases the amount you can equip without being overloaded.

[Raid]

I've been sticking to medium load (having had to increase my stamina a few times to do so).

[Wrathbone]

If blocking and dodging don’t work then I guess the only answer is stay the hell back. With some enemies I find you need to keep back and only charge in when they leave themselves open. I’ve noped out of a few fights so far, not because they’re impossible at my level but because they’re not worth the repeated punishment of defeat when there are so many other places to explore.

[Snowy]

What about the famous post-asylum bit of DS where the path you need to use is to the right, but if you go left you get relentlessly pummeled to death by unkillable skeletons?

I got about halfway through DS, enough to see what the fuss is about, but lost the will to carry on and never felt compelled to return to it. I'm glad I've at least tried one of their games so I get what I'm missing out on, but content to not play any more of their games (or indeed other purported 'Soulslikes'). Not for me.

I don't think I made it half way through DS. I got a way in, killed a couple of bosses (eventually) I think, but it was so unremittingly bleak and with a complete lack of any relief, story or even guidance that I have also decided their games are not for me. I also played Bloodborne but totally didn't get that. Liked the aesthetic but the game was just an impenetrable wall of repeated deaths - I probably walked away with less than 3 hours of having no idea what I was doing and the game telling me that I was a talentless twat and never went back.

Shame as I would like to enjoy the games, the settings look great, but they are simply not for me.

[Raid]

If blocking and dodging don’t work then I guess the only answer is stay the hell back. With some enemies I find you need to keep back and only charge in when they leave themselves open. I’ve noped out of a few fights so far, not because they’re impossible at my level but because they’re not worth the repeated punishment of defeat when there are so many other places to explore.

Staying back doesn't work either as they run as quickly as you do and I just can't find an opening to attack them. I can maybe get one quick stab in and roll backward twice, but it's basically impossible to kill a group of them in that manner.

I think I'm just going to give up on the area. This is a perfect example of what I was talking about on friday - I just don't know if I'm not strong enough for this area or if I've simply not discovered a tactic for defeating them. I could deal with all of the enemies in the area prior to encountering these things which makes me think it's not too high level for me, but an hour of pure frustration (during which I've been killed more than in the seven hours prior) suggests the opposite.

I'd really be interested on how others fair when they get to Siofra River. I'm spoilering this for those that want to find it themselves, but to get there:

Spoiler

You descend to it in a lift you find in a small temple-looking building in Mistwood, eastern Limgrave. I think once you head down that lift you'll understand why I've been wanting to explore the place.

[Mantis]

I went down the lift and was in awe of the scenery and then promptly ran away when I realised that my backstab attack didn't even do a quarter of the enemies health bar.

Currently I've explored a pretty big chunk of Limgrave but haven't dealt with any main story content. It's such a beautiful game and there are so many little hidden dungeons to find, I'm just combing my way through the map doing the ones that don't seem overly challenging.

The damage types really play into this more than the previous games I've played. There are some enemies in a mine area which seem super resistant to my scimitar slashing damage and I have to have an enormous battle of attrition to clear the area without running out of flasks. I haven't really found many alternative weapons yet either.

Absolutely loving it so far.

The ashen summons are quite helpful for the tougher encounters. Either the wolves or the noble group do a good job at taking aggro off you to give you breathing space. They do bugger all damage but the sheer amount of them are good at confusing the boss targeting AI.

[Raid]

I've found the wolves a hell of a lot better than the nobles.

I've done a few hours grinding for smithing stones and runes, got my Uchigatana up to +3 (the highest you can go at the first smithing table), and I think I'm level 25 or 26 now (I've focused mostly on vigor and dexterity). I've actually got a fair few of the higher level smithing stones, and I'm keen to find the next level of smithing tool. I've been murdering the poor sods at the Gatefront Ruins over and over as they've been a decent source of both stones and runes.

I did venture into that mine by the lake, as it seemed to be a good source of the smithing stones (I think I got 6 or 7 if you count the ones on the enemies and the walls). I was cursing myself as I rolled off of one of the lifts onto a hidden platform, and then realising there was no way back, as falling down the remainder of the lift shaft killed me. I didn't want to lose my runes as I had most of a level's worth, and the enemies there did kill me a few times. I came to a large gate with just a single health flask remaining, figured there'd probably be a boss behind it... and I beat it first time with less than a hit's worth of health remaining. I don't know if the boss was resistant to slashing damage too, I wasn't able to combo anything as the katana would deal damage but then bounce off of him. My heart started pounding when I realised I could actually kill the thing, and it was unbelievably tense charging in to make that final hit.

I've started using a charm / amulet / accessory (I don't know the slot name) that gives me health if I get a critical hit, and it's surprisingly generous. It probably does about half a health flask's worth of healing. The katana's charge attack breaks the stance of the low-level soldier types in one go, allowing you to saunter over and stab them through the chest for the health, which is handy.

[DjchunKfunK]

Good rule of thumb for Elden Ring is if your attacks are doing very little damage to an enemy or it's taking 2 or 3 more hits to kill trash mobs than it was in a previous area then you are probably underleveled for the area you are in. The good thing is tht you can just mount up and run away, unless you are in a dungeon of course.

So how exactly are you meant to fight enemies that have a wide-arcing slash attack that has more range than your roll moves you backward?

For these types of attack if you dodge roll into the direction the atatck is coming from the i-frames will allow you to roll through the attack. It's a tough one to train your brain to do and I still struggle with it after many years of playing these games, still comes naturally to dodge away first time.

Question: Does it matter which hand you're holding your weapon in? I only ask because I seem to get a technique for my shield (Parry) but not for the sword.

I'm not sure if you can parry with swords in this game. If you hold your sword in two hands (hold Y and press RB) you should be able to block with a sword and maybe you can parry there? When it comes to damage from backstabs, hits after posture breaking enemies and downed attacks, the higher the crit damage stat of a weapon the higher damage it does for these atatcks.

One little tip that really helps out and is easy to miss, if an enemy attacks and clangs off your shield quickly press RT and you will do a posture break attack that will momentarily stun an enemy.

I've played a good few hours of the game and beaten the first proper boss that opens up Stormveil Castle. I'm currently a little confilcted on the open nature of the game, I'm not sure that it is actually leading to a better game. A lof of the little things that I like about Souls games are currently missing because I have spent a lot of time wandering about. There have been lots of comparisons to BotW and I can see why but I don't think Elden Ring gets the balance between exploration and reward quite right. There have been a number of times where I have spent a substantial amount of time killing enemies only for my reward to be some random item or weapon that is of little use and the paltry amount of runes I got from killing the enemies. In BotW you either spent a short amount of time solving a puzzle or beating an enemy and were rewarded with a small reward or you spent more time solving something and the reward was better. There is also a lot of identical looking ruined arches and hills in the first area of Elden Ring which makes the world seem a little sparse. I'm not totally against the openworld yet but I have my concerns, hopefully things get better as I explore further away from the starting area. At least Stormveil Castle is classic Souls.

[Raid]

BotW is probably the game I'd most liken it to, the atmosphere and sparseness of the world are surprisingly similar feeling. I share your appraisal of the open world not being quite as rewarding. It's funny actually, one of the things I kinda wish the game had was BotW's lock-on system, which was substantially less awkward to use than Elden's. I've lost count of the number of times I've tried to lock on to something chasing me, only for the camera to immediately reset to facing forward because the enemy wasn't quite centred enough.

I'll certainly try a bit more rolling into attacks rather than away from them. I was two-handing the Uchigatana while farming, and while you can block with it you still take a small amount of damage, so I was trying to evade attacks rather than block them. I know that it's possible, I just wasn't sure which way to roll. I do wonder if you can swap out a weapon's skill with the parry one. I'm absolutely hopeless at parrying so I probably wouldn't replace the katana's excellent Unsheath ability (which just looks cool as hell), but it'd be interesting to try were I to practice with it. I've not done anything with the skills yet, I've picked up a few but haven't really wanted to swap them out yet.

[Wrathbone]

There was a brief moment where my BotW vibes were so strong that I almost swan-dived off a cliff, forgetting that I don’t have a glider.

[Raid]

So I worked out you can upgrade weapons past +3 in the Roundtable Hold, so my Uchigatana is now +4. I did actually change the ash of war on it and gave it the quickstep ability, which is basically a faster dodge that moves around the opponent. I've not used it to successfully get a backstab critical yet, but it's better for avoiding attacks from what little chance I've had to use it. It also had the Keen enhancement, which makes it scale better with dex, but drops the scaling from strength. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference, I'm still only getting +1 to the bonus damage when I add another point in dex.

I've so nearly killed that first major boss, I've got him down to maybe 5% a couple of times, but got greedy and went in for the kill when I should have healed. I left the fight for a breather and came across one of the Sacred Tears, the items that upgrade the amount of healing your flasks do, which is a pretty big boon. I went and found the new ash of war afterwards, so I may see if I can dodge some of his attacks a little better next time. With the extra damage I ought to be doing now, I would have killed him on previous runs.

I went and killed the field of giants that's above the starting area on the run up to the castle. I was terrified of approaching them when I first got up that high as they're somewhat intimidating, but now that I've largely settled on two-handing the katana, I'm doing so much more damage that they go down in no time. I'm getting a little braver approaching enemies now; that first-time victory over the mini-boss in the mine has done my confidence a world of good.

[Mantis]

I don't think it's possible to parry with a sword, as you've mentioned with the special weapon attacks, perhaps there is a specific parry one. I haven't tried two handing much but I'm finding the weapon ability with the scimitar to be very useful against the mini dungeon bosses. For the most part, two blasts of it puts them into stagger and allows me to get the front critical hit which does significant damage. I've gone from using all healing flasks to splitting it 5/1 for the little bit of extra mana now just for those extra few special attack staggers.

I quite like the open world, there are a few things hidden here and there which make it worthwhile exploring. Having the fast travel so easily accessible (and incredibly quick loading times on PS5) means that once you've explored an area fully you have very little need to trawl through it again.