The Absolute State Of It - It's The UK Politics Thread!

[Wrathbone]

Would it be too tinfoil hat-ish to think that the Tories are trying to trigger a general election that they will intentionally lose to lump Labour with a nightmare scenario?

[Raid]

I'm not convinced May actually represents the Tories these days. It feels more like an elaborate resignation to me.

[Tommy]

Would it be too tinfoil hat-ish to think that the Tories are trying to trigger a general election that they will intentionally lose to lump Labour with a nightmare scenario?

I'm not sure it's possible for the Tories to deliberately lose a general election at the moment (save for being really outlandish). Think about how poorly they've handled this thus far, and in some polls they aren't even behind. On top of that, May just isn't unpopular enough to challenge Corbyn's numbers. To lose, they need a leader who will unite Labour voters, floating voters and dissident Tories. Unfortunately, you'd imagine May would be that person.

My other thought would've been Jeremy Hunt, but I'm unsure.

EDIT: The fact we're even discussing the creation of a losing electoral strategy is utterly bizarre.

[Wrathbone]

Jeremy Hunt would work in a self-destruction scenario. I'd hope Michael Gove would too - I don't think I've ever spoke to anyone about him without us both agreeing he's a despicable, odious wretch.

[Raid]

I don't think there's one prominent Tory that I'd prefer to see in power over May, and I detest May.

[Tommy]

Jeremy Hunt would work in a self-destruction scenario. I'd hope Michael Gove would too - I don't think I've ever spoke to anyone about him without us both agreeing he's a despicable, odious wretch.

I despise Gove for the kind of person he is, rather than the work he does. I'm not suggesting I like policies he's enacted, but in his last few roles he's undone a lot of the shocking work that went before him.

I also think that if I had a bout of amnesia, forgot everything I knew about every politician, I'd still pick him out to kick the shit out of.

[Wrathbone]

Coming from a family of teachers, I witnessed the devastation he caused in the education sector, the repercussions of which are still happening today. I can't speak for what he's done since then, but his actions as education secretary were wildly incompetent and damaging.

[Strudel]

Back to the question of why May is up for a debate I think it just comes down to the fact that she has a plan (which is shit, but still a plan) whereas Corbyn doesn't. It doesn't matter how many times Corbyn says the plan is shit, if he can't answer the question of "So what would you get?" with anything better than "We'd err...get a better deal!" then he looks just as rubbish as her.

Corbyn's only chance of actually unsettling May is if he pushes for a second referendum or just outright says we should stay in the EU and can clearly articulate why that's better than what May is selling. But he can't because he doesn't believe it. He's more a Brexiteer than May is, so we're in the bizarre situation of someone who basically wants to remain arguing for why she wants to leave and a hardcore leaver arguing for why it should be a softer leave or even remain!

I don't think any debate between the two of them would be in the least bit interesting. I'd watch, but probably with a strong desire to hang myself throughout.

[Mantis]

Regardless of Corbyn's personal beliefs I think that he believes in party democracy enough that he will firmly side with Remain. The problem is that 7 in 10 Labour seats voted Leave. They are completely stuck between a rock and a hard place over it.

[Tommy]

Regardless of Corbyn's personal beliefs I think that he believes in party democracy enough that he will firmly side with Remain. The problem is that 7 in 10 Labour seats voted Leave. They are completely stuck between a rock and a hard place over it.

The question then becomes 'If the party was to back remain, would it cause those voters to vote for another party?'.

I assume Labour HQ have already looked at that. Regardless, remain is clearly the best choice but if it comes about, it's a great opportunity for some Brexiteers to claim Brexit is the best thing that never happened, while simultaneously pleased we didn't have to suffer through it. A great platform for somebody...

Obviously I don't want it to happen but for a lot of people, the only way they'd accept it's a bad idea is if they were forced to live through it.

[Tommy]

Coming from a family of teachers, I witnessed the devastation he caused in the education sector, the repercussions of which are still happening today. I can't speak for what he's done since then, but his actions as education secretary were wildly incompetent and damaging.

I also come from a family of teachers, and agree entirely. I was speaking more of his time after that.

[Raid]

In other news, water is wet.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... reddit.com

Sure looks like the kind of research that ought to have been done *before* the public voted.

[Strudel]

It was. And it was described by idiots as "Project Fear".

Though it should have been more accurately titled "Project Fucking Obvious you dimwitted thundercunts".

I really hate all the bullshit arguments coming from Leavers like "Economic models are always wrong!" And "Don't trust experts!"

[Mantis]

The argument in the run up to the vote was basically Remainers saying "You realise this is going to be really bad economically for literally everyone, right?" and Leavers responding with "Nah, we'll be fine, we're British mate, remember the Empire? We'll trade jam with the Commonwealth".

The stupid thing is that there are people who read these projections and say "Fine with me, all worth it to get our sovereignty back/stick it to the EU/get bendy bananas/some inane reason".

Yet I bet when reality bites they won't be happy at all, they'll find something else to blame it all on of course.

[Raid]

Was it? I'm aware of the "project fear" nonsense, but I don't recall a government-run analysis published in such simple terms prior to the vote. It's entirely possible I'm not remembering the build up to the vote clearly.