Are they taking the piss? Yes, but only once a month.

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Jez
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Jez » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:22 pm

She doesn't do them at all. She shoves everything into the flip top bin and ignores completely the plastic box I have for recycling stuff. So I end up going through our flip top picking out recycling. Does my fucking nut in.
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Sly Boots » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:27 pm

Jez wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:22 pm
She doesn't do them at all. She shoves everything into the flip top bin and ignores completely the plastic box I have for recycling stuff. So I end up going through our flip top picking out recycling. Does my fucking nut in.
Ah, that really is worse than mine, who is good at separating the waste and recycling into the kitchen bin (waste) and bag I have for the recycling, but refuses to decant either into the outside wheelie bins, cramming them furiously until I do so. Half the time the rubbish bag splits because of this when I get it out of the bin.

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Achtung Englander
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Achtung Englander » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:36 pm

what I find seriously depressing is that a lot of recycling that we think will get recycled are plastics that cannot be recycled at all. I am all for investing a shit load more money on finding more degradable plastics or more environmentally friendly packaging.

That to me is better money spent than....ohh..I dunno - renationalising the water industry :roll:
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Lee
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Lee » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:36 pm

We have just the one bin and we have a weekly collection here. If it was made monthly you can bet the street would just start fly tipping everywhere else or let it rot on the street causing more issues than just picking it up as the norm.
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by DjchunKfunK » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:16 am

Achtung Englander wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:15 pm
sorry but I pay enough tax. If the councils cannot make this work for the people they serve than maybe some of the councillors who are on 6 figure salaries should think about taking a pay cut.
We are a pretty low tax society and pay less as a proportion now so I would take issue with anyone who says they pay enough tax. One of the major problems in our country is that people feel they should be getting the same services they always have done for less money.
That to me is better money spent than....ohh..I dunno - renationalising the water industry :roll:
The government can't do much about companies using plastics that are not easily recyclable. Also we shouldn't be looking to replace unrecyclable plastics with more recyclable ones as that still uses up resources. We should be looking at reducing the amount of plastic used period.

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Jez
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Jez » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:26 am

Low tax?

Income tax plus National Insurance plus council tax plus VAT etc. It all adds up to a whopping amount every year.

I had a wee look into it and I'd say on comparison with similar countries in the West...US, Canada, Oz, much of Europe we are definitely in the higher end of our peers. I can't comment on their bin collections etc though :)

I don't think it's fair to say people want things and services for less either. What I would say is that the vast majority want VALUE for money. I know from working in the military AND in the NHS the deplorable waste of money literally everywhere from procurement to contracting to stupidity. That's just 2 arms of the government and god only bloody knows what local council Muppets are wasting.

People incomes should NOT be further taxed before making the pounds they do get work harder and less wastefully.
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Achtung Englander » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:54 am

well said mate. Lets look at what we pay personally
- Income tax, on average 33% of your salary
- Council tax - variable but lets say £150 to £300 a month
- Sales tax - 20% on almost everything you buy
- Road tax - what is that now, £200 ?
- Fuel tax - 58p per litre EXCLUDING VAT which is added on top of that. So lets say fuel is 130p a litre. 130-58 = 72 x 0.2 = 14. So out of 130p, 72p is tax - that is 55%. Half of your petrol consumption is tax
- TV licence - £150
- Inheritance tax - again variable depending when you make a will but worst case scenario 40% over assets worth £325K
- Stamp Duty
- Capital gains tax - how the fuck is this even a thing !
- Interest tax

You will get taxed 10 ways just for being alive. Look at below, we pay more money servicing debt than we do on defence. That is fucking nuts.

2017 numbers
Public Pensions £166 billion
National Health Care + £152 billion
State Education + £88 billion
Defence + £48 billion
Social Security + £115 billion
State Protection + £32 billion
Transport + £31 billion
General Government + £16 billion
Other Public Services + £115 billion
Public Sector Interest + £54 billion
Total Spending = £818 billion

As of Q1 (the first quarter of) 2018, UK government debt amounted to £1.78 trillion, or 86.58% of total GDP, at which time the annual cost of servicing (paying the interest) the public debt amounted to around £48 billion (which is roughly 4% of GDP or 8% of UK government tax income).

The solution is not more tax and more spend because that road is not working. It is tax and spend better OR make things and sell them abroad and boost your national income via Corporation tax, ie, the German model. We do have a very robust service sector with London bringing a shit load of money.
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by DjchunKfunK » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:49 am

Income tax is not 33% of your salary on average, nowhere near, you don't get taxed more than 20% until you are earning over £46k. The average salary in the UK is £27k which means on average the population sits in the 20% bracket and £11k of that is tax free.

Council Tax, National Insurance and Income Tax are both lower proportionately than they have been, council tax in particular is a complete joke and is not fit for purpose. I wont disagree that indirect taxation is bad, but it doesn't contribute that much and I'd also agree that corporation tax is too low.

Oh and TV license isn't a tax.

There are systemic issue with our economy due to having to bail out the banks, but that doesn't mean we therefore pay too much tax.

Jez the strain on our health services, council services and social services has only increased as the population has grown and got older. There are less people paying tax now than there were in previous years, especially when the welfare system was setup and more people using these services. Yet people want the same service as always without wanting to pay more into it. It just doesn't work and isn't sustainable.

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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Stormbringer » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:55 am

DjchunKfunK wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:49 am
Oh and TV license isn't a tax.
And also optional.
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by DjchunKfunK » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:56 am

Just on tax compared to other countries, took this from a Guardian article from 2017.
A comparison of personal tax rates across Europe, Australia and the US by Guardian Money reveals how average earners in Britain on salaries of £25,000, or “middle-class” individuals on £40,000, enjoy among the lowest personal tax rates of the advanced countries, while high earners on £100,000 see less of their income taken in tax than almost anywhere else in Europe.

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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Mantis » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:16 pm

Achtung Englander wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:54 am
The solution is not more tax and more spend because that road is not working. It is tax and spend better OR make things and sell them abroad and boost your national income via Corporation tax, ie, the German model. We do have a very robust service sector with London bringing a shit load of money
Well, ideally the solution would involve both of those things; more tax and spending with better use of the funds, plus increased corporation taxes with an emphasis on giving companies a boost through an active economy.

Given the cost of living in this country I don't really advocate tax rises for the low and middle income earners. £40,000 a year isn't an uncomfortable amount to be on, but that doesn't mean you should squeeze those people even more, especially with the amount of waste in the public sector. £40k doesn't get you that far nowadays if you want to buy a house big enough to raise a family with a couple of kids.

I've got no problems with moderate tax rises for the £100,000+ earners though; they wouldn't have to be that extreme if public sector spending was sorted out with more money going directly to frontline services rather than being pocketed by contractors, bureaucrats and middle men. If somebody actually collated the amount of tax money that was wasted on such things it would be a national scandal.

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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Wrathbone » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:24 pm

Jez wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:26 am
People incomes should NOT be further taxed before making the pounds they do get work harder and less wastefully.
Good point. The amount of pointless crap that's involved in jobs today (both public and private sector) is mind boggling. Our dev team spends a full day every 2 weeks - a full 10% of my time - guessing how long work is going to take, and most of the people guessing have no idea for any given task because we all have specialised roles. It's beyond wasteful, and I'd wager a substantial proportion of taxes are wasted with similarly pointless admin nonsense. My sister is a teacher and she's recently been subjected to some grievous misuse of public funds and time as she was forced by some government scheme into training for a new role that she didn't want and the school didn't need. What's the sodding point?

I do think we need higher taxes from the highest earners and from tax-dodging businesses, but the first priority should be making sure we actually make efficient use of the tax we currently pay. The irony is, that would inevitably result in some government think-tank that does nothing but amplify the red-tape.

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Jez
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Jez » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:32 pm

agree big business need to stump up more but the money should be allocated to social issues such as old age care, mental health etc etc. The government could make a big deal of how <example> Amazon's tax money went to sort out issues in bother-on-pasture town centre. Might help these companies to save face and have some positive news a written about them.

Dunno. Either that or just tax them and keep it simple :)
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Jez
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by Jez » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm

DjchunKfunK wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:49 am
Income tax is not 33% of your salary on average, nowhere near, you don't get taxed more than 20% until you are earning over £46k. The average salary in the UK is £27k which means on average the population sits in the 20% bracket and £11k of that is tax free.

Council Tax, National Insurance and Income Tax are both lower proportionately than they have been, council tax in particular is a complete joke and is not fit for purpose. I wont disagree that indirect taxation is bad, but it doesn't contribute that much and I'd also agree that corporation tax is too low.

Oh and TV license isn't a tax.

There are systemic issue with our economy due to having to bail out the banks, but that doesn't mean we therefore pay too much tax.

Jez the strain on our health services, council services and social services has only increased as the population has grown and got older. There are less people paying tax now than there were in previous years, especially when the welfare system was setup and more people using these services. Yet people want the same service as always without wanting to pay more into it. It just doesn't work and isn't sustainable.

That's all fine to say but would you not agree that people's taxation shouldn't be raised until wastage of what they already get on both a national and local level should be sorted out?
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Re: Are they taking the piss !

Post by DjchunKfunK » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:11 pm

Jez wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm
DjchunKfunK wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:49 am
Income tax is not 33% of your salary on average, nowhere near, you don't get taxed more than 20% until you are earning over £46k. The average salary in the UK is £27k which means on average the population sits in the 20% bracket and £11k of that is tax free.

Council Tax, National Insurance and Income Tax are both lower proportionately than they have been, council tax in particular is a complete joke and is not fit for purpose. I wont disagree that indirect taxation is bad, but it doesn't contribute that much and I'd also agree that corporation tax is too low.

Oh and TV license isn't a tax.

There are systemic issue with our economy due to having to bail out the banks, but that doesn't mean we therefore pay too much tax.

Jez the strain on our health services, council services and social services has only increased as the population has grown and got older. There are less people paying tax now than there were in previous years, especially when the welfare system was setup and more people using these services. Yet people want the same service as always without wanting to pay more into it. It just doesn't work and isn't sustainable.

That's all fine to say but would you not agree that people's taxation shouldn't be raised until wastage of what they already get on both a national and local level should be sorted out?
I think claiming there is loads of money being wasted in the system is just an excuse put forward as an argument against tax rises. It's like the old efficiency savings the government trots out each year to try and claim they are going to spend more without raising taxes, or the stuff trotted out about scroungers on benefit, it's a red herring. Yes there is wastage and it should be tackled, but I don't think it is a chronic issue that should stop taxes being raised.

I'm not advocating people on middle incomes pay more, although I would not be against a rise in National Insurance to help social care and the NHS, it's the higher earners and business that should bear the brunt.

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